Dd doesn't have a maths teacher

Not at all a derailment, Kitten. Your DD aside, her school isn't doing well by their top set either, by not entering them for any additional qualifications. They will struggle with the leap to A-level if they have been coasting with just GCSE. And it's doing your DD a clear disservice, if in another school she would have had the opportunity to get another qualification under her belt.

It seems to be such a lottery as to what happens to bright kids in top maths sets, with them having such different experiences in different schools. No joined up thinking even though we all face the same issues.

noble it wasn't meant as a derailment. I meant it as a lot of schools don't seem to have a good way of dealing with the brighter mathematicians and I was attempting to commiserate. Self teaching is not ideal, not even for the highly motivated. It sounds like I came across differently and I apologise.

They're just settling in at the moment. (Up to Spring when we can discuss what will happen next year)
We're assessing her ability, (We wish we had more of a clue than an A* at GCSE)
There's others in the class just as bright. they're just not as far ahead. (Your daughter is comparatively thick)
It's just in tests she tends to do well. (Thick but lucky)
We've given the same work to other classes and they're doing all right. (Though in fairness they had someone teaching them)
She needs to put her hand up more if she gets stuck.(so the lack of teaching is her fault)
She seems to like taking part in the lesson with the rest. (she is not disruptive)
Well, we'll have to put some of this into practice. (Please go away now)
We don't think rushing ahead with her education is the best course.(We intend to keep doing very little)
Breath of understanding is important. (We can just keep putting a work sheet in front of her)

I will report back what the school says.

I could give you a cliché tick list to go in with .

her reply was she only needs a B to do A level maths

Bollocks.

That's a good point, dingit, if she took her maths in Y9, that was before the rules for early entry came in in October 2013. Those rules said that only the first attempt at a GCSE would count for the league tables. However, the new rules would not apply retrospectively to those who had already sat their GCSE. So if your DD sits her maths again in y11 and improves her grade, her improved grade would be the one that counts and would be used for the league tables.

Her assertion that she only needs a B to do A-level is merely about being allowed onto the course. If she wants to do well at A-level, then her best chance of that is if she has an A*. Those DfE statistics need to be taken under caution too, as they suggest that it is possible to get a good grade at A-level with a B at GCSE, but that only includes students who managed to get past AS. Most students who got a B at GCSE and started AS maths wouldn't appear in that graph because they dropped out before Y13.

The only needing a B to do A Level maths is rubbish. All the maths teachers I know agree that the most likely grade for anyone taking A Level maths with less than an A at GCSE is a U. DH (a maths teacher) says that anyone with a B at GCSE has at best a 50% chance of passing at AS.

Your DD sounds extraordinary, kitten and while there are undoubtedly some kids who could teach themselves complex maths at a young age, they are rare, certainly not a subset of each year's cohort.

For those children, I really don't know what I'd advise. GCSE entry well before Y11 (say Y7/8) then causes the problem of running out of secondary school maths to teach them before sixth form. What do they do then? The UKMT stuff is good, but you are lucky that she is self-motivated. It sounds quite lonely doing it on your own, when a lot of advanced maths is a collaborative effort. Does your DD go to university master classes or similar?

Just to add in our experience. Dds school are adamantly against doing gcse maths early, even for the most able. They don't do any further maths. Dd has been off curriculum teaching herself since part way through year 7 (she's year 10 now) doing a variety of things. At present she is working her way through the various UKMT publications. She teaches herself at the back of the class, I'm not entirely happy about that but she is very motivated, content and understanding it. Her teacher is putting aside one lunchtime a week to mentor her - which I'm very grateful for as that is a big commitment for a teacher for one student. I don't know what else they can do at this point.

She probably sees GCSE maths again as a backward step and an admission of failure, like moving down a set. She needs to see it as a complete failure on the part of the school to support her in her studies rather than an issue with her maths ability. Have you shown her that DfE table of maths grade versus a-level result?

They are essentially asking a GCSE student to self teach aspects of A-level that a lot of students in Y12 with full teaching time and support struggle with. Even before you get to the issue of whether a Y10/11 student has the skills to manage their own learning, this course is tough. Ask the school if they would consider leaving Y12s sat at the back of someone else's class teaching themselves AS level maths a recipe for success, and if that would not be a reasonable expectation for them, then why is it for your DD? What is she supposed to gain from this experience? Point to the complete failure of this method in Y10 as evidence that it's not working.

As a contrast, I currently teach top set Y11. We are not doing OCR additional maths, but we are doing AQA further maths, which is similar to additional maths in that it includes concepts such as calculus and pushes their algebra and trigonometry. Further maths is easier than additional maths (it counts as level 2), although it is still pretty difficult.
We will be putting them in for both GCSE maths and further maths in June of Y11. There are some in the group who could have sat GCSE earlier and got an A, but putting a subgroup through then causes problems that your DD is experiencing. The others who would not have got the A earlier are still benefitting from being pushed with the FM as it will help them when it comes to A-level, even if they don't get top grades in it (a C is 18% so they should get a reasonable grade). I teach GCSE and FM alongside each other. There is no doubt that the class struggle with the FM more than GCSE and they need more input and support when we are doing those topics. As you would expect. The idea that you would give them less support and input on harder topics is just bizarre to me. Don't they want all children to do their best?

I wish mine would get a bit more disruptive, then they would not get the impression she is happy in the lessons and perhaps even teach her some maths. And I'd not have to sit through another meeting with the bullshit meter pinging to red.

in my experience they don't "offer" this option they just inform you and in year 9 the children and parents know no better .The earlier poster is right the school are not interested now because she has the A for their league tables .

she sits at the back of the GCSE class for 9 lessons a fortnight, not really knowing what she's doing and getting bored

It's too late to help you now, OP, but out of interest: when the school offered your daughter the opportunity to sit GCSE maths early, what did they say was the benefit to her? Because "do this and you can sit at the back of the class for 9 lessons a fortnight" doesn't seem a compelling proposition, really.

It seems that FSMQ is a really good course and I agree, because it goes into "Threshold Concepts", it is excellent grounding for A level if taught properly.

After years of treading water at school, I'm now struggling to persuade dd that school is somewhere where children are taught maths.
I was thinking more that, if there is someone in the OP's family who could teach maths, just getting back some of the interest without learning to an exam for a year might be a good move, especially with all the other GCSEs to concentrate on.

Another option may be to forget the FSMQ retake and spend the time working on AS topics if she is wanting to go on to A level next year

The core topics of AS and FSMQ are pretty much the same, and are certainly at a similar level, so if they're struggling with one without support, they're struggle with the other.

Reading through this thread, I'm coming increasingly to the conclusion that my own dd is just going through a time wasting exercise in maths lessons until the others have caught up. She does not even seem to be following the course work for FSMQ she was promised she would be doing.
I do go in for regular meeting with the school and certainly if your dd has gone from A at GCSE one year to U at FSMQ the next, I think you have every right to ask for a meeting to find out what is not working in your dd's education. I'm just concerned the same is about to happen to my dd.

Is your dd doing the OCR Advanced FSMQ? If so, at school, is she working through the recommended text book published by Hodder? Do you know if the school are actually teaching the course? My own dd is just handed sheets with questions to work through when the rest have been given their lesson. The teacher then helps her for a few minutes here and there if she gets stuck, between helping others and marking books. As you can imagine, I'm not happy and more to the point neither is she, which is why I'm doing the course with her at home. However dd is not in her GCSE year so this option may not be open to you?

Another option may be to forget the FSMQ retake and spend the time working on AS topics if she is wanting to go on to A level next year, giving her a year of learning maths for fun without the pressure of an exam at the end and building up her skills for A level.

Being taught A GCSE maths in her lessons would be better than sitting staring at a book she needs help to understand.*

This. Every word.

I don't have a maths degree, but I've got an Erdos number of 4 and I've done a decent amount of undergraduate maths (mostly discrete maths).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd?s_number

When I first looked through the FSMQ textbook, there wasn't anything in there that's overly scary, but it's a bloody sight harder than GCSE and includes threshold concepts

blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseteachingblog/2012/10/11/threshold-concepts/

everywhere you look. Differential calculus means subtle reasoning about infinitesimals. Linear programming is new in every regard. The idea that someone with an A at GCSE could self-teach this effectively is preposterous. I supported my children doing it, well taught in a class doing nothing else, and it was a challenging exam. OP, your daughter needs an intervention.

Additional maths wouldn't be a waste of time if she was actually being taught it properly, but she isn't. Being taught A* GCSE maths in her lessons would be better than sitting staring at a book she needs help to understand.

If she could still attend the after school additional maths sessions, that would be useful.