Applying for 6th form- presumably you state which AS levels?

No school needs in depth, extensive knowledge of every course.

They simply need to know in which direction to send a pupil. And they need to have actually spoken to them to know where to send them.

That young people are making decisions about their options without anyone commenting on its possible implication, is really piss poor.

I would just be a bit wary with further maths! Friend's DD wanted to do medicine, and FM wasn't recognised as a separate subject from maths, so she needed an extra one! So find out how useful it's likely to be before choosing it! Another good reason for good advice and guidance.

I have to say that it is not reasonable for schools to be au fait with the courses available to all students
there SHOULD be good website information, but it has been cut by government
teachers cannot reasonably be up to speed with Oxbridge requirements as well as those for pig husbandry, hairdressing and yacht building.

I suppose what really bugs me, is that we're not talking about complex information here. None of it requires extensive knowledge.

Teachers just need to hand over a leaflet! Or put a poster up as talkin says.

Errol yes a joint approach would be best.

To be honest, many schools that do have a sixth form still seem to offer little decent advice.

It really is a huge issue, that must be easy to crack.

As talkin says, if one college can do it so well, there really is no excuse that so many pupils fall through the net.

Does my nut in.

Tansie
When you go around the colleges, ask the staff in each department about combinations and options.
Because the schools stop at Year 11 they do not tend to worry about it too much.
The colleges do.
I was lucky that DD had a pretty good idea, but one of her friends who was looking at doing Accountancy and Business studies is now safely on track with Maths and Further Maths.

The first open evening will make it clear what the bad choices are
the second open evening will show what the good choices are
and by the time the taster day comes along after GCSEs the colleges have seen the mocks and are pretty blunt about what will work and not.

The Oxbridge staff at PSC, BP and Brock are also very helpful and have the RG options website that wordfactory mentions in BIG LETTERS in their rooms.

Well, if schools can't get the GCSE guidance right they're don't really stand a cat in hells chance of getting A level (or other post 16 advice) right do they?

Actually, for what it's worth, I agree that secondary schools should be looking beyond their own GCSE targets but I really don't think they should or could be up to speed on all the post-16 options and the implications of one course combination over another.

It shouldn't be either/or, it should surely be a combination starting, as you say, with GCSE choices. At DD's school they did provide a certain amount of information starting back then.The staff may not have all the answers about all the myriad A-level and other options but surely they should be at least able to point the kids in the right direction to find out, and make them aware that not all A-levels are equal when it comes to university applications.

bird - my DD already knows she almost certainly wants to do engineering - but we hadn't realised how important Further Maths was till I started an MN thread about A level choices. We'd foolishly assumed from our own long-ago A levels that single maths would cover the range of topics just not in so much depth but having looked at the curriculum there's gaping holes if you don't do Further Maths as well. There's topics which are only in the FM which you'd need for Physics too and would be helpful for chemistry if you don't want to have to play catchup.

Well I'll tell you why I think secondary schools could and should deal with this; they should already have an eye on this from GCSE options.

Far too many pupils take inappropriate combinations of these. Or far too many, thus diluting their grades.

I think secondary schools should be looking at pupils holistically, rather than as someone to get 5GCSEs to put on their league tables.

I think it is unrealistic to expect an 11-16 school to be fully versed in the A level choices a student may have. Sorry word but I disagree with you, I think the onus should be on the sixth form to give the advice. Our local sixth form sees every student for an application interview and again for an enrolment interview let alone several opportunities at open days.

My one hard-learnt lesson from DS1: if there's a faint chance you might change your mind and want to do engineering, do further maths.

I think you have to be very proactive.

• UCAS is a good start - seriously. Look ahead at the types of subject might be appealing at university (assuming that a lot of A level students DO go on to university) and look at the entry requirements.
• specifically ask at open days, 'if I do this subject what else goes well with it' or 'i am thinking of this combination of subjects - what do you think'.
• Go and see the careers staff at the sixth form open evenings and ask them 'if I do this combination of subject what might it lead to'. *Read the Informed Choices leaflet about facilitating subjects
• In my experience (limited!) if you choose one science subject you really need a second, or maths.

Makes sense, yes. I pity the poor staff trying to get to grips with every subject, though.

At the last count we had a theoretical choice of around 20 post-16 settings -- agricultural training, maths Pre-U, performing arts diplomas, you name it.

bird I think the secondary school.

They know the kids well. They have a duty to send them on fully informed.

bird don't you apologise! This is a situation that stinks.

Every pupil shod have a tutor/mentor helping them with this. Relying on kids and their parents and t'internet is not fair.

Where would you place the onus, WordFactory? Would it be on the GCSE school to inform their departing students, or the 6th forms to emphasise it to their applicants?

(I do realise that many school have their own 6th forms, so would have to do both roles.)

Though it pisses me right off that 15/16 year olds who are already up to their ears intheir GCSEs are not getting solid advice on this from school!

Everyone needs to seriously complain!!

Sorry, WordFactory!

DS1, to be fair, researched every possible combination of facilitating subjects for his chosen career (and then changed his mind about his career choice mid A-levels. Hey ho).

DS2, on the other hand, was always very unlikely to listen to anyone telling him about anything as tedious as worthwhile subject combinations when he had the chance of doing drama for A-level.

errol am on phone and can't link. Sorry.

Young people need to look at the informed choices booklet (updated) version plus the Trinity list (website).

Though this isn't set in stone , it is a good rule of thumb, especially for those with an eye on competitive courses!

My advice; keep doors open, don't put yourself at a disadvantage!

Thank you, TheWordFactory I'll see what they say about his grades at parents evening.

I think DDs school kind of hopes the most able will all stay - and will steer the less able towards colleges. At present DD is hating it (new Head Teacher) and has no intention of staying. But in our area all schools have sixth forms, we would travel to neighbouring areas for Sixth Form colleges.

BUT I think the way my school in the 1970/80s gave advice on subjects was better than DCs school does.

lady if he's going for a selective university then the grades will need to be good.

So as well as ensuring he has one or two essay bAsed subjects, the rest need to be the ones he think will produce the best grades.

It's also worth anyone on year 11 asking prospective sixth forms what their plans are for AS. This is changing in some subjects and sixth forms that choose not to do them may be disadvantage go the most able students.

TheWord - maybe you know of online resources for pupils/parents that may help inform us? It's not that hard to find information if your DC has a fair idea of what they want to do eventually - admissions criteria for specific university courses - but at this stage obviously a lot really don't know.

Ds has no idea . He wants to study Law so he knows he needs an essay one, but he's got no idea which. He doesn't do decisions very well so I don't know how much 'guiding' I should do. Tricky.