Worst forms of selection in schools: Views of M'snetters

Selection can work really badly at times. Someone upthread mentioned a snotty receptionist giving them the brush-off, we had a similar experience. When my DCs started school our local primary school was not what we wanted for DS so sent him, and later DD too, to a local independent school. When we moved we checked we were in the catchment area for the local comp which was highly rated. I rang that school 3 times trying to get a prospectus and open day info, each time the receptionist was arsey because DCs weren't in local primary schools. We felt the attitude was so negative it would not be a good move so ended up in the private sector for secondary too (not easy for us at times)
That school missed out on 2 bright and able young people who would have been an asset because of selecting against private school pupils

mum I was trying to say that IME of the state sector the needs of the super bright aren't properly being served.
I don't think the needs of the super bright should be given priority over children of other ability ranges but the are generally ignored on the basis that they're going to do well so that's fine.
talkin our extras don't come to another 5k year (thankfully).
I know that I've worked in a politically correct profession for years but am I the only one to be very offended and rather annoyed by other parents being called "chavs" and "big fat gypsy"s? talkin frankly I'm surprised at you for using these highly insulting terms. We have already correctly criticised the OP for using derogatory terms about children she teaches.

PS Summerends
I'm not quite sure why you are so bristly / insecure about kids like mine getting stonking grades at state school.

Happgardening is refreshingly honest.
and proves the point that if you sent your son to Eton for the results, you have rather missed the point.
Any oik can get good grades,
but only the Westminster School PTA can offer City internships in its auction of promises

Oxbridge will wake up to the irony of employing wordfactory but it may take a while

"bottom of the table"
yeah, that will always exist
and it will always be a comp
and in the old incarnation of my local comp, those kids were rare but when spotted were supported for obvious reasons

the current owners of the comp are an evangelical Christian group : no selection at intake but its rammed down the throat once you are in the door - free bibles for all bogroll from what we heard

sorry but I will not play their games
if the school turned back into a non religious, we might go back, but Bliar and Broon have an eff of a lot to answer for

My 2 nearest schools have been taken over too Talkin, but one is still consistently bottom of the county table (and under new headship yet again this year - it's a very challenging school) and the other managed a slight improvement for a couple of years, but then regressed again. I don't think it's been out of the bottom third, certainly not the bottom half. I think one child there got all A*/A GCSE this year. Short of turning catholic there are no other options before sixth form without medical grounds etc. This has probably coloured my view of comprehensive schools considerably. I know London has had a lot of money/initiatives thrown at schools and they have had success there in turning poorly performing schools around, but out in the sticks it seems much harder to do.

PS Frogs, as we cross posted
there is little "attracted to" round here : catchments are 12 miles across

frogsinapond
I feel the need to clear my head and add a point to the discussion.

Bliar was a great believer in "parental choice" and "faith schools"
he and Broon then brought in the "sponsored academy" system to take over failing schools to magically make things better

when we moved here (pre kids) TBH we did not take on board the minefield, but as DH got more involved with education
I'm his PA, shareholder, director and bookings manager BTW
we saw that if YobCentral1 and YobCentral2 could be separated, then the 2nd was a good bet.

sadly both were handed to a bunch of evangelicals with no experience of running rough schools (we all locally supported the Uni bid based on pedagogy but it had a smaller schmooze budget )
so the school went, in 3 years from 1700 to 400 pupils : intake of under 70

this week I saw two "big fat gypsy" mums openly saying "its DCS school or we move as local school is dire
when the chavs and the gypsies avoid a school, Ofsted should intervene.

Don't really know county ratings Talkin except that mine is one of the lowest :(. Assume Hampshire being 'south' and virtually 'home counties' is likely to be average at worst, I think I've read that schools are supposed to be good there....

Shame about the demise of Latin - it is pretty rare for schools to offer it I think. Perhaps that was something that attracted brighter dc to the school?

Ha - you've just described my younger two talkin' - chalk and cheese

agoodinnings
I have a child who gets the Greek Myths out of the library to read on the plane to holiday (we have so many books she did not realise we have a copy)

I have a child who will quite happily watch videos of other people playing Minecraft for 5 hours

I live in a comp county, I cannot afford private.
What would you do in my shoes (I cannot move house as I bought 20 years ago)?

Frogs
Latin is gone : DS will not get it because the teacher has retired and has not been replaced.
Is Hampshire a high performing County? : wordfactory has often said that we send less per capita than London

My local school : bright kids - sorry, does not compute. Cohort of 65.
Kid from there is at college with DD .
Her motivation to get an A in MFL with a string of supply teachers should mark her out NOW as an exceptional student : but I suspect the outreach team at Oxbridge whose staff include people who neither approve of or use comprehensive schools will not spot her potential
I would rather the school closed and restarted, but the £16million building that is not fit for purpose has to be wished away

Not criticing your choice at all Talkin, I would do the same. You were lucky though to have a good alternative, not everyone does.

Out of interest, do you think it would be exceptional for a bright kid to do well at your local comp? I wonder if the parents of the dc that attend it are so enamoured of the system?

Your dd's comp is way above average I am sure both from its results and curriculum (offering Latin sets it apart from most). 'not even in top 20 comps' in a high performing county is hardly a damning indictment.

''It is NOT EXCEPTIONAL FOR BRIGHT KIDS TO GET GOOD GRADES IN COMPS''

Nor, unfortunately, is it not exceptional for bright kids to not get good grades.

For those kids with intrinsic motivation, comps are fine, unfortunately my DD is not one of those kids.

The school I wanted DS to go in selects like this. The candidates sit a test. They are then banded 1-5 and from each band an equal number are taken so it doesn't matter how many are in the band. However, once in the band, you are scored against the criteria A-G. My DS was assessed at F so had hardly any chance. When we got the rejection letter, there was a breakdown of who got in. Of 120 pupils, 39 already had a sibling there, so basically a third. I think that's so unfair for secondary school. I can understand at primary school as parents will probably have to take their children but this is not usually true at secondary school

PS
I refuse to feel any guilt for not sending my children to a school
that went two terms without an MFL teacher in post
that went a term without a science teacher in post
that refuses to publish any results information on its website
and that if it were not a sponsored Academy already would have been shut down long before they got their shiny new (half empty) building.

I'd give up my holidays and wine and work more hours to send them private rather than use my local school TBH.

Have skimmed to catch up on the thread having been out at work most of today

Happygardening My £40k figure about WC was more the total cost including fees and extras and exeat transport and the like
I pay no school fees but I cough up at least £2500 a year per child on the twiddly bits and transport

I'm getting rather bored of the your comp is exceptional broken record.
My kids school is not exceptional.
Here is the league table of secondary schools in the county
www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/group.pl?qtype=LA&superview=sec&view=aat&set=1&tab=149&no=850&sort=ks4_13.ptl2basics&ord=desc
DCs school is not even in the top 20 comps in the county.
It is NOT EXCEPTIONAL FOR BRIGHT KIDS TO GET GOOD GRADES IN COMPS
State selective schools are available to so few that the emphasis should be on getting the best out of those without access to the 164 grammars
and on ensuring that the 90% of the population who cannot afford school fees get value for money from the mainstream state system..

I must admit in looking for a secondary school for bright but quirky ds3, I'm really searching for somewhere I think he'll have friends and not be overwhelmed. If I find that school he'll be going there, and that comes before selection/results/qualifications of teachers or anything else really.

I may have to make a bit of a leap in the end though and see how it works out.

Could well be friendship groups at the moment, I think. I'm keeping an eye.

It is difficult Birds. Sometimes it's friendship groups (which is luck of the draw to an extent in any school), but even when they seem to have a great group of friends sometimes things don't seem to work well for them for no discernable reason. When my dd asked to change school in year 9, there didn't really seem to be anything wrong with where she was, dh & I had no complaints and even she couldn't articulate why she wanted to move, but she was much happier once she did.

Hm that's true - my physics A level
teacher was shocking - although I think it affected those of us who were thick at physics (me!) rather more than my physics-genius friend (she was doing so maths mechanics at A level anyway which helped).

Have encountered some shocking physics teaching (across a range of school types). That's a subject I'd say the teacher really does need a proper understanding to teach as if they get it wrong it can lead to misunderstanding and confusion in the students. It also seems to be a subject that is often taught by general science teachers who don't have adequate physics knowledge. I don't think a higher level of knowledge is needed for brighter children, (except if they are asking questions beyond the syllabus I suppose and even then if teachers will admit they don't know when they dont rather than bullshitting that's acceptable), but teachers don't always seem to have enough physics knowledge to actually teach the syllabus accurately which is more concerning for all abilities.

It's not, is it? And the fact that schools as well as children change makes it all the harder to guess at 11 whether your child and the school will be a good fit later.

DS was very happy at his (comp) school, DD rather less so, and I can't put my finger on why.

going with our childrens gut feelings has mostly worked well for us jimjams, two different children both bright, one suited a top set but the other seemed to fare much better with more mixed ability teaching. Schooling is very definitely not a one size fits all.

DS has an A* at A-level in a subject for which he attended none of the lessons last year because of health issues. (In fact, if I'm reading his UMS scores correctly, he got 100%, which is possibly overkill.)

So, yep, I'd agree with Jimjams that a bright child doesn't always need the highest teaching input for good A-level results.

Ah okay fair enough. I do agree schools vary, although they seem to change in 'favour' quite quickly. We sit between two comprehensives - one was 'the' place to go ten years ago and everyone wanted to get their kids in there. Then something changed and all I hear are bad comments now. The other one is the one I have mentioned above, with a very mixed intake that does very well for it's students. The mixed intake means it isn't particularly sought after, but I have been very, very impressed by the teachers and the head, and their results.

Locally one of the girls' selective schools (traditionally the first choice one) seems to be going through a bad patch, and everyone I know with a daughter there complains about it. They get good results - but the parents I have spoken to suggest that the results come at a cost. If I had a daughter I'd probably choose the second choice school - the results aren't as stellar, but every parent I have spoken to speaks highly of it.

I find it so hard choosing a school. In ds2's case I really wasn't convinced the grammar was the right place for him, but he has absolutely thrived there - maybe we need to follow our children's gut feelings, he was keen to go there and has loved it from day 1. (That's me telling myself tbh, as I struggle to choose a school for funny-fish ds3!)