A Level Maths - how much of a jump from GCSE?

I do think you have to have a real talent for maths to be successful at A level.

The HT at my sons' school (where you have to have an A at GCSE to do AS maths) says he feels maths is the only subject where people reach a natural ceiling. In most other subjects, provided you put the work in, if you've done well in a subject at GCSE you should be able to do well in it at A level. In maths however, students can do well at GCSE but sometimes that is their ceiling. That certainly seemed to be the case with DS2. He did GCSE maths in year 10, got an A. Did C1 in year 11, got an E. Did AS maths last year, got a D. He put more effort into C1 which he sat with his GCSEs than he did for all his GCSEs put together. He had a maths tutor for most of year 12. Still ended up with a D in AS maths (and AAB in other subjects so he is capable of good results). I used to blame his early entry for GCSE maths but now I think he just reached his ceiling with GCSE. (And I pleaded with him not to do AS maths!)

I've just looked up the year 12 AS results for our school last year. Out of 84 students (who would all have had A*/A at GCSE maths), 8 got an A, 13 got a B, 22 got a C, 21 got a D, 13 got an E and 7 got a U. That's almost half the cohort who, despite doing very well at GCSE, got D, E or U at AS.

If I were in your position I would request an urgent meeting with his maths teacher. At our school course changes are allowed - timetable permitting - within the first few weeks of term.

Fundamentally, it depends on how hard it was to get that B and what marks he got on the paper to achieve it.

Back in the days when GCSE Maths had three tiers, and the tiers were: Higher (A*-B), Intermediate (B-can't remember) and Foundation (D-G), I was entered for Intermediate and got a B. It was a fast-track course (I covered about five years of maths in four months, but I didn't find the maths particularly hard- just fun) and I then did AS Maths, didn't really notice a step-up, and got a B for AS Maths. I did do all the work set though, because it was maths work, and therefore at that point in my life, pre-internet, I thought that was a fun way to spend time.

The point I am trying to make, is that you are not necessarily doomed if you have not covered GCSE Higher material in depth before the A-level course starts. But you do need to like maths.

I think the level of maths in AS physics depends on the board and syllabus. DD did AQA B, and there was an awful lots of maths covered, particularly mechanics.
I think it depends where your DS's strengths lie in maths as to whether he will be able to cope with it. If he is strong at algebra, then he should be able to do AS level.
My DDs' school allows them to swap options within the 1st 4 weeks (and it has been known up until half-term. They tend to be tested in all subjects at the 3 to 4 weeks mark.

I also started Further Maths at A level staright after O level - now that is terrifying!!

And if we did A level Physics you were also required to do A level maths for a year for the Applied maths.

When I took it many, many years ago it was a huge leap from O level to A level. I assume it will still be the same if the same areas of maths are covered.

My youngest has dropped A level maths. She got A at gcse but now knows she can't get the A/A she needs at A level. It's a huge leap.

why doesn't he struggle with physics

Because most of the maths has been stripped out of GCSE Physics, and A Level physics doesn't require much that isn't in GCSE maths. By the end of A2 physics he might find that he's picked up a bit of the material that's in additional maths (a small amount of calculus, particularly) but the days of needing to do what amounted to A Level maths to do A Level physics have long gone.

If he doesn't do A Level maths, it restricts his options in applying for computer science in the Russell Group and the next band down. There are a few courses which will take students who don't have A Level maths, but usually only if they have A Level computer science, not to be confused with A Level ICT. But they are uncommon, and the ones I know of offhand demand AAA at least. And at those universities he would have to do what amounts to A Level maths in the first year, and if he fails it that's a problem. In practice, the vast majority of students who successfully complete computer science degrees at selective universities have A Level maths, typically at grade A or at least B.

at dd's school they say students must have a B at GCSE in order to do A level maths but they must also have covered all of the A material at GCSE (so have been in one of the top two sets) and be able to demonstrate 'proficiency' in algebra. In effect this means that only A & A GCSE students take the A level.

My DD got an A at Gcse and went on to get an A at AS but she did do extra algebra in year 11. As mentioned in a previous post, you need to continually do past papers/questions. DD has worked her socks off and had an excellent teacher. If he is determined to do it and will work hard, then get him a tutor.

I got an A at gsce maths with very little revision. Ended up with a D at A level after working my backside off and doing resits!! I did 5 AS's and 4 A levels and maths was the hardest by a very very long way. I agree with others who say the jump is huge. I loved gcse but A level was horrendous and I wish I'd never bothered with it.

Your hit the nail on the head there cantsleep. GCSE Maths is a lot easier. It is possible to get a B without understanding algebra. Some students are not even taught the A* work that is the foundation for A level. A level was dumbed down a bit too but not so much. There was some O level maths that you wouldn't cover till your degree now.

A-level Maths requires a strong foundation. I sat GCSE Maths early and got a B and I also got a B for A level. I found that A-level Maths inspite of starting early in year 11. I sweated blood to get my B for A-level Maths.

A-level Maths requires a different type of brain to GCSE maths. (Or at least it did in 1990) GCSE maths involved solving problems where as A-level maths was more proofs, geometry and calculus. I found A-level Mechanics easy as I was doing A-level Physics

Gosh it seems that people have quite different experiences from mine. I got a B at GCSE (was expecting an A until I took the exam and came out knowing that I'd royally funked up on a massively marked question). I went on to do 2 A levels in maths, in which I got an A and a B.
I worked hard for them, but I wouldn't say that the jump was as big as this thread suggests.
This was a long time ago, but unless they've massively dumbed down GCSEs since, I don't see why it would be any different.
WWill the low mark on this test give him a wake up call and encourage him to work harder do you think?

Get him to concentrate on GCSE A*/A algebra work. If he works really hard he could get a D.

When my dn (who got an A* at GCSE) got a D for her AS, we began to hear lots and lots of stories from people, and all said it was the biggest jump in levels, at any point in your education, and that maths was renowned for being a particularly big jump.

Obv., this is just individuals' experiences and not data, but it is something I've heard over and over, from different sources.

I think you know he needs to just put his back into working at the maths and if he does that he'll soon catch up. I didn't do maths A level but did similar subjects and all went so far past GCSE that resting on your GCSE laurels, for anyone tempted to do that, was never going to get you very far.

Actually brilliant that his 6th form tests every four weeks. No better way to learn than practising questions (at least that's what I found for accountancy professional exams) and the fear factor of tests is a great motivator to get the practice in.

I admit I'm slightly confused by the choice of Psychology though. If he's interested in computer science at uni, was good at Chemistry and got an A at GCSE, then I'd say that Chemistry seems like a far better choice than Psychology (- think it would form a more related group with his other subjects and give him better scope to refine his choice of uni course if need be). Could you see if his college would let him swap Psychology for Chemistry? No matter what they've said already about no changes, that seems a bit harsh when term is only like 2 weeks in and he's perfectly capable of making that work up in his own time.

DD got an A in Maths and an A in Statistics at GCSE but really struggled with A-level. She really worked for her GCSE's though, so not 'naturally able' as such and she was doing an extra AS level so could drop it without causing herself problems further on.

I'm intrigued by the idea that he has started his A level course but they aren't doing A level work. What are they doing?

We would be encouraging him to change courses if he was at our school.

We find that students who attempt AS level after getting a B at GCSE usually end up with Us at AS. The ones who manage to get a grade who have come to us with a B are the ones who work their socks off for the whole course, ask loads of questions, seek out help for homework at break and lunchtimes, use internet tutorial sites to help them (Khan Academy seems to be popular) but don't just copy their solutions, etc. And even then those who arrive in sixth form with a B grade GCSE tend not to get higher than a D at AS, unless they are very bright and the B came from messing around/absence in years 10 and 11, and then pull out all the stops in sixth form.

If he hasn't already gone through it, take a step back and go through the CGP Headstart to AS maths' it covers all the A stuff from the GCSE course. It was DDs holiday homework before starting A level maths last year. It is actually possible to get an A at GCSE without knowing any of the A stuff.

DD got a mid-A at GCSE, expected to struggle but its been better than she thought. Physics for her has been far worse, A* GCSE, but really dropped at AS.