A Level Maths - how much of a jump from GCSE?

Thanks Bruffin and Dragonlette.

Noodledoodledoo - I think you're right. DS doesn't like asking for help as he thinks it makes him look daft, however much we have told him it's even dafter not to! He's a lot better than he used to be about it though.

Uncomfortable not comfortable!

I think one of the biggest pieces of advice for anyone with students starting it is to ask for help when it starts to get tough. Something students who have never struggled with a subject feel comfortable doing initially. It doesn't reflect badly on them at all but they feel it does and is a big leap to admit its not so easy anymore.

I teach the IB Diploma Higher Level mathematics, not A level.

I would like to point out that some poor students (who have achieved A* in IGCSE) just do not get the more advanced mathematics, no matter how hard they try.

These are often the really diligent students who got excellent IGCSE results as they were prepared to sit down and WORK. However, this fantastic work ethic does not always succeed in mathematics.

I believe there is a sort of ceiling for most people in terms of how much maths you a can comprehend. I know that end of my degree I felt I had reached that level.

To the people worried about their kids starting off with an a* at GCSE, you really shouldn't need to. They are starting from the right kind of level,even if it feels hard to begin with. The A graders will generally find it harder, but is should be manageable. No need to panic.
However, many places do set an A as a minimum for a very good reason.

5madthings - he will be fine if he has done further maths.
My DD got an A at Gcse but did an additional algebra course in year 11 and has found AS maths fine. She knows that A2 will be harder though and has spent several hours today doing past C3 papers as they have almost finished this module.
As pointed out above, what is needed is lots of hard work and doing lots of past papers, gold and Solomon papers.

Morvah if your ds has an A at GCSE and is prepared to work hard then I'm sure an A at Alevel isn't out of reach. We get quite a lot of As from students who start off with A at GCSE, as long as they are prepared to put the work in.

Its not impossible, just takes a lot of hard work. Dcs Head of Maths says its practise, practise and more practise.
Their school have also changed from OCR to Edexel which is supposed to be easier.

This is all very alarming . . . DS has just embarked on A level maths and further maths. He got an A* at GCSE and really needs maths to do either computer sciences or electronic engineering at university.

He's found the first two weeks a bit of a struggle in terms of the workload, and has always had very little confidence at maths, unlike his other subjects, although his teachers always said he had no reason to be. He looks at the questions and panics, then he calms down and finds he can work it out.

He works hard and is a bright boy, all A*s and As at GCSE, but from reading this thread it sounds as though an A at maths A level is virtually impossible!

(dives into bottle of wine . . . . )

This is interesting reading, ds1 current yr 11 is looking at doing computer sciences. He is predicted all A's and A* at gcses including in further maths which he is taking as an extra gcse, lessons after school. So far none of it is a struggle but I think he will be in for a shock at a level. He is however very dedicated and organised so I think he will step up and put in effort required, just so far it's not hard for him, he is just naturally bright and maths and sciences etc just click with him.

Is there anything else other than further maths which is useful to prepare for a level maths?

My dd got an A* for maths GCSE and is finding A-level a significant jump.(also doing Chemistry and physics)

They had a test and she failed along with most of the class.
She says the teachers has said if they fail again they will be kicked off. Very harsh I think, but might be the kick up the proverbial she needs. She got the A* with minimal revision.

This thread is making me feel very nervous about my son who has just started A Level maths. He got an A in his linear GCSE - 82% which I believe is closer to a B than an A*. I have drummed it into him how hard he will have to work.
My older son finished his A Level maths last year with a B. He really did struggle, especially in the beginning (the shock of the jump from GCSE!) but he eventually settled into it. He did complain about the workload though.
I am hoping that my younger son will be better prepared as he did the linear GCSE so the content should all be fresher than if he'd done modular.

My dd has just started a level maths as well. They were tested on fundamentals in the first week. If they got below 65% they have to go to extra classes to cover gcse work again and those who got below a certain mark were not allowed to take a levels.

I think you have to take very seriously the stats mentioned above that over 80% of students starting A Level maths with a B at GCSE will end up with a U. His starting test result suggests he may well be in that group.
I realise it is not what you want to hear, want stories of people succeeding from this starting point. However, you need to be realistic. The college were already not keen to take him with his B and you say he persuaded them. As many people here say, an A grade is a minimum requirement in many places.
If I were you, I would be open to a switch of subjects. Perhaps ask if he can have another test sooner than 4 weeks time, and feedback about his suitability for the course. The fact that not having maths might limit later options is not a reason to stick with it, if success is a dim chance. You need to consider future options based on his ability and academic profile, not just on what he fancies doing.

It is quite a jump, a lot of places have transitional pre-courses for Maths A Level to help with that.

Here is an online interactive "Step-up to A levels" that he might have a go through to get a more secure warm up/starting point.

My ds got an A at GCSE, but apparently does have some sort of talent for maths. He threw a huge wobbly in the first two terms of AS. The mistake he made was not to go and ask for help. His teachers have an open door policy and any maths student can go into their teachers lesson and sit quietly until teacher has a few minutes to talk to them. To be honest he got away with a lot because he is well thought of in the maths dept and he keeps them on their toes. However he did end up with an A at A level.
FWIW my niece graduated two years ago from a computer science course without any A levels (she did a DIDA). It was a fight to get onto the course (Not RG) because she didnt have maths and had to take extra test to prove her maths ability. She has her own business now at just 23

Another school here who only accept students with an A at GCSE Maths to do A level. Being in set 3 there is a strong possibility he wont have covered a lot of the material which is considered fundamental hence his low mark.

As another poster says he will need to go over and above the work expected to 'catch up'. Get him to ask his teacher if there are topics he needs to work on, if school have access complete all A and A* grade lessons on mymaths or similar. Reside permenantly in Maths department working will show teacher he means business! Will also probably earn him more support.

With the no changes I can half understand it as missing the first half terms work of a subject can put students at a huge disadvantage we do something similsr at GCSE as well with options.

If he got 21% on a test on fundamentals, then to me that suggests he will find the rest of the course very difficult.

I should be writing recommendations at the moment for students who are applying for Computer Science courses, they are likely to get the highest grade at Higher Level Maths in the IB Diploma. They have A at IGCSE Maths and A or A at IGCSE Additional Maths. When I tested them last year on Fundamentals they got over 80%. That is the kind of student who are computer science courses are looking for.

Maybe he needs to reconsider his aspirations.

Computer Science at uni is basically applied maths. The maths content is significant, substantial and hard, very hard. Many many people taking comp sci will have further maths at A level, especially in the Russell Groups. If he enjoys hardware, rather than algorithms, I'd suggest he takes IT instead.

Do you have the money to afford a bit of extra support for him? My ds is still in Y11 but has found online tutoring from www.mathsdoctor.co.uk/ to be excellent. If not the tutorial videos from www.khanacademy.org/ are free and very good.

I think the changes aren't about the subject you drop but more about the one you take up. My sons course was a bit slow for the first ten days but has really started to rank up the work now - in class and out. The longer a student misses this work the harder its going to be to transfer successfully. After all, a half term is probably 1/5 of the syllabus when you think exams take place in May/June next year.

My school doesn't allow pupils with a B to do A-level because experience shows that it is just setting them up to fail, and wasting a year of their time. Many who fail end up having to resit Y12. It isn't just a case of needing to work hard to overcome the lower starting point either - we have, as a school, let some students who failed early tests continue the course because their parents have insisted, despite our better judgement, and they have all failed. Despite working their socks off, despite getting a tutor, despite blood, sweat and tears.

If he didn't spend the summer holiday working his arse off on his algebra, then he has been poorly advised.

My son was going to do similar, Mrs Ryan, but got weeded out a bit earlier by a ruthless college and he has instead started a two year BTEC in IT (software stream) and is resitting GCSE Maths to get a higher GCSE grade (he did only manage a high C, not your son's B, but B was the very, very minimum they were prepared to accept which does indicate the move must be a tough one - after all colleges want students to succeed).

I understand his other subjects are going well but it may be another option if he has to change tack and has problems with the other subjects too. Or, maybe it is some exercise to get them to sit up and work harder? After all, if only one in the group passed!

Only 4 of my sons group out of 15 are aged 16. The others are age 17 having tried AS levels last year and struggled. It is very common.

Our Maths department requires an A at GCSE before students are considered for the course. The average prediction at A Level for anyone with lower than an A at GCSE is a U grade.