I think DDs school want her out

'And would you also explain that to the parents who complain that their child never gets to win certificates Fairenuff?'

No, because their education is their responsibility as is their morality, their tolerance and their prejudices. They are ADULTS.

Evil I made a mistake and skim read your post, which I apologised for.

I actually would be the mother who might decide to allow treat, even if the school had issued sanctions, if I though my DC had been punished enough and I though behaviour a home warranted a treat. You cannot judge her for this, it is her call and yes she might make mistakes sometimes. As a school do you pay no attention to preventing melt downs, de-escalating conflict, preventing emotional crisis points?

And would you also explain that to the parents who complain that their child never gets to win certificates Fairenuff? Managing teenagers and their sense of what is/is not fair is a minefield. There's no such thing as a praise system everyone thinks is fair - too many individuals with their own views on what "fair" is.

Yes, I would happily explain the reward system to parents Evil.

If you think your system is unfair, why are you using it? I would give rewards according to targets achieved. So, for child A (with sn) concentrating for 15 minutes might merit a reward. For child B (no sn) meeting one of their literacy targets might merit a reward. Make targets achievable and everyone will receive their reward. If targets are not being met, think about changing them to something more realistic.

It's really not hard.

Mandy , my ds has just left a specialised school with56 pupils I wonder if it is the same one

With regards to embarrassment caused by the mum wanting us to go with her reward plan - she asked teachers to make it clear. In the specific case of this child it was important that he knew that school was consciously working with his mum. He would not have made the link without it being made explicit. None of you know this child, so don't jump in and assume I was doing anything other than what his mother had explicitly requested.

You know, a big part of the problem here is that a lot of professionals (schools, LAs, NHS and therapists) just can't accept in practice that children with autism and ADHD are actually different. There is this constant unrealistic expectation that they can be 'normal' if their deficits are pointed out to them, over and over again, and a bit of punishment thrown in to make them think twice about having the audacity to display their disability openly in the future. And this stuff is coming from people who really should know better.

Presenting as 'normal', as required in school day in day out, is bloody hard if not downright impossible for a child with ADHD. Why is that so hard to understand?

I had similar issues just from ds year 1 teacher. From September to February he was sent to sit in the corridor all day everyday because of some made up infringement of the school rules. e.g. he spent too long getting his socks on after PE, (he has strange shaped feet and socks and shoes are a real issue. I can sweat trying to get his feet into socks), he asked a question or the final straw, he coughed. Ds had been off for a while with a lung infection. Drs said he could return to school as he was no longer infectious but he would have a cough for the next 6 weeks. I told the CA and the teacher before school. First cough and he was out in the corridor.

I found out from one of his classmates, I went straight to the HT and complained. The teacher was gone that afternoon never to return.

In this world of the majority of schools only being interested in how many GCSEs their pupils get I am surprised that there are not more incidents such as this.

Both of my children are dyslexic

Ds goes to a secondary that is in special measures, there are only 12 pupils in his class and he gets the 1 to 1 help he needs. Dd also has ADD and goes to a specialised private school that again gives her the 1 to 1 that she needs. I don't know how the school would get on with the class year in dds school as out of 56 pupils, 44 are diagnosed with dyslexia and yet they get really good results, better than your dds school hopes to attain

And would you also explain that to the parents who complain that their child never gets to win certificates Fairenuff? Managing teenagers and their sense of what is/is not fair is a minefield. There's no such thing as a praise system everyone thinks is fair - too many individuals with their own views on what "fair" is.

Capsium - ironically, you are doing exactly what you accuse me of. Have you even read my post? I do take parents' wishes into account - but as I said, it has backfired because the child was embarrassed that his mum had asked school to remind him of treats he was earning at home. Also, parents don't always do a flawless job - my example of the mother who gave in (and often does) because she doesn't want to deal with the melt down - that's not helpful for the child, OR the school.

'Sounds like you are defending her poor behaviour and she has picked up on this.'

No it doesn't. It sounds like the OP is defending her child's self-esteem within an incompetent institution.

^my last post was to Evil

Oh I see you don't mention this within earshot, sorry skimmed there. However I do not think you have to mention this at all. It is embarrassing to have everyone scrutinising your every move though...you can see how it could make someone self conscious? Adults manage what personal information they give to what people all the time.

'The motivation needs to be intrinsic to really be of worth in the long term.'

That is putting the responsibility of motivation onto the child, which is ridiculous. If you're not motivated, you're not.

The teachers need to find a way to motivate the child, and refusing her rewards, and listing her faults, is NOT WORKING.

Sorry Rafa, it was capsium referring to the lack of SEN Training thread last week.

Sorry, streaky, I'm not sure which thread you are talking about.

Sadly I suspect it isn't an isolated issue.

The kids find it embarrassing if I, as the teacher, even quietly with no other child in earshot says "well done, XXX - that's a merit mark - I'll write it in your diary like Mum asked so that she knows and you'll get your cinema trip on Saturday"

If the child concerned is embarrassed about this, don't do it. How about saying, "X can I have your diary please", then writing the note to mum and hand it back to the child. They still get the merit, they still get the cinema trip but you will have done this without embarrassing them.

I don't expect them all to do the same but just being fair is all i want expecting her to remember 10 instructions with no hand out is setting her up to fail

The really stupid thing is that dealing with this issue by giving a handout could actually benefit all the children in the class, particularly in lower ability sets where any of the children might have issues with working memory despite having no diagnosed SN.

'Schools and parents need to work together.'

Yes they do, and the sooner schools realise this and do it in an equal partnership arrangement rather than insisting on the outreach model or none, the better for everyone.

Evil why are you mentioning this, 'like Mum asked' (is she your Mum too?) within earshot of other children? I am not surprised there is embarrassment....

Evil a child with ADD is not " naughty "

Of course they can be badly behaved and need to be sanctioned , but the fact that my child needs extra incentives to help him understand the significance of some social norms does not by definition make him "naughty "

This thread has made me cry and I think I may have to leave it.My son has ADD ( note no H) so is rarely if ever badly behaved , he is ignored though on occasions because he is quiet , he needs extra praise and prompts compared to my other boys , my younger son is 13 he completely understands this , just like he understands that the diabetic little girl in his class is not being " naughty" if she has to eat a glucose sweet in class.

I've been thinking a lot about that thread too Rafa - same issues, different thread .

Evil I would ask that 13 year old if they would like to swap lives with the 'naughty kid' and have all the praise points and the sn that helped them get them.

I would talk to the child and explain the reasoning behind it. How hard is it for the girl to sit quietly for an hour - easy. But for the child with ADHD it takes massive effort just to concentrate for 15 minutes at a time, a bit like running a marathon. So, really, who has put in the most effort and who deserves the praise points. The 13 year old will be able to understand if you explain it properly.

Also, I would make sure that there was a reward system that everyone could benefit from because every child should receive praise and be made to feel that their efforts were noteworthy regardless of their academic level or ability.

And teachers can win. They just need to take on board what parents say and treat children as the individuals they are. Treating them as you would want to be treated yourself is a good start...

Would you like your employers to have a Zero Tolerance policy over your work performance? Oh of course it is impossible to measure .....too many variables, no?