I think DDs school want her out

I agree with capsium regarding funding. Funding doesn't write SMART IEPs, improve attitudes, develop good partnership relations with parents, create efficient planning. It doesn't (currently) train TAs or Teachers in effective practice for SENs.

In truth SEN has shedloads of money. The majority of which gets nowhere near the actual children who need it, but pumped into circular systems of 'monitoring', 'multi-disciplinary meetings', 'caseload management', 'referrals', 'assessments', 'room hire', 'support', 'external agency visits to advise teachers to do something they tried months ago', 'report writing' and 'reviews'.

I always think it is interesting how both staff and other parents focus so much on outcomes, targets, whatever you want to call it, without realising the assistance the student needs to reach these targets.

DD1 had a 1-2-1 TA, outlined in her statement and required for her to reach her potential (specific disability impacting on her learning although she is v intelligent). The amount of parents who saw this as "favouritism" was truly amazing, we had comments like "why should SHE have extra help when she is at the same level of other children". Talk about missing the point. And don't get me started on parents who assumed her TA should be for the whole class "oh what will the class do when your DD leaves, they will miss the TA to help them".

I just think some parents just don't GET sn, no malice, it's like how we as parents didn't really GET what it was like to have DC before they came along. And the lack of training teachers get in MS schools, it's no wonder children with sn struggle so much. I don't know what the solution is but I do know there needs to be more awareness, and therefore understanding,for other pupils, parents and staff.

I have mixed feeling tbh concerning some of the cuts and new SEN legislation. Previously, IMO, all to often children with additional needs were left with TAs, with not enough teacher (at all) input as a means of 'policing' or at the very best managing, SNs, instead of helping a child overcome their difficulties. It was a glorified version of segregation in some cases.

More staff for a class can mask SENs and ineffectual teaching. Sometimes when the resource is reduced what is really effective comes to light. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that...And I have a child who has had various SENs at different times during his school career.

Thing is lucy this is not just about pastoral staff.

General attitudes have a lot to answer for IMO. Why does it take a Special School for teachers to be sensitive and to exercise a certain level of tolerance? If a child persistently seems to be experiencing difficulties looking at how to support, other than punishment / sanctions? Being kind? Caring?

Starlight sometimes the asking questions is enough, done in the right way, which tends to be in writing which neatly preempts a built in 'exit strategy', available for the school to adopt. The silence can be deafening, hence the need for an obvious, readily available 'exit strategy'....

starlight Must be hard.

You can ask questions of schools and teachers. Being answered is quite another thing.

I sometimes wonder about the teachers on MN. They come across as passionate, committed, questioning and hardworking. Why through 6 schools did my child not get any of those types?

Truth is, he did. But somehow when you have a child with SEN there is a kind of paradigm shift. I look at my dd's amazing teachers and think. 'Wow, if only my ds had had you!' but then I remember, he did, or at least someone very like them.

It's very very odd.

Starlight I knew I was being 'hard liner' concerning the rewards. I agree with you but my ideal is correct pitching and making subjects relevant.

We use the same overall reward system for every child in the school. Within that, there is ample opportunity to reward some children for things that other children do not get credit for. This is what some (ignorant) parents complain about.

However, as a system it generally works well. Having different systems for different students and keeping some private whilst publicising others would not work.

Starlight I can quite understand, but asking some very serious questions about provision, is what got our DC's actual progress, in terms of SEN, officially recognised. Until then the school were quite happy to take the additional, individual, funding and deploy it as they saw fit...but the from the actual paperwork alone, this was difficult to discern.

I do totally agree about 'Velcro TAs' though. No provision is better than this, as a TA used in this capacity has such a tangible negative impact.

It is also possible to keep reward systems for some children, private.

With many SEN, whole class peer pressure, competitive reward systems not only don't work, but are a source of anxiety.

I implement it in a fair way, in my opinion, in my classroom. However, I am not responsible for the way in which my colleagues implement it and cannot possibly take responsibility for the ways in which 700 individual teenagers interpret it. One person's "fair" is another person's "deeply unfair" after all.

'Extrinsic rewards devalue the subject in terms of finding it worthy of intrinsic interest.'

Only if implemented badly. Children sometimes need extrinsic reinforces in order to engage with something long enough to see what it can offer them, then it becomes intrinsically reinforcing.

'My point was that there is no such thing as a system which everyone thinks is fair.'

Perhaps. But isn't it then your duty to implement a system that appears 'fair' to those whose life chances depend on it rather than for those who do not?

capsium, I guess my child's provision was so dire and not likely to produce any meaningful outcomes (as none were defined) that I didn't give a monkeys if it was deployed elsewhere. In fact, I preferred it to be as Velcro TAs (as opposed to trained EBP practitioners who could write and implement SMART targets) actually held my child back.

Fairenuff I actually prefer no extrinsic reward system. I think this has an impact on the likelihood of finding intrinsic interest in a subject.

Extrinsic rewards devalue the subject in terms of finding it worthy of intrinsic interest.

IMO verbal encouragement, being able make subjects relevant, pitching them correctly to the audience and inspirational enthusiasm for a subject is what is required.

But then I appreciate this is rather a 'hard liner' view to take...

Some parents accuse us of giving points to "naughty" children who have behaved in a way that other kids do automatically.

That's because they are ignorant of sn I suspect. You can't please everyone but as long as all the children are getting rewards where they are deserved, the children should be happy and that's the key to education, imo, happiness and motivation

Our behaviour policy rewards loads of things from tutors giving points for punctuality and correct uniform at registration to attitude to learning and quality of work in lessons to homework being handed in on time. Students also get points for involvement in school life, for showing good manners and for being helpful.

Some parents accuse us of giving points to "naughty" children who have behaved in a way that other kids do automatically.

My point was that there is no such thing as a system which everyone thinks is fair. And there never will be.

What is your good behaviour reward policy, that should say.

^then outcomes are evaluated.

Provision maps should include staffing levels, ratios of child to adults in group work, as well as special equipment provided and strategies employed.

Do you have a behaviour policy? If so, what is the system in the policy regarding good behaviour?

Of course we have a behaviour policy, but sometimes, students with SEN such as ADHD and ODD find it difficult to adhere to certain elements of the policing as quickly as other students.

Round and round in circles.

It's not round in circles. You were complaining that your other students don't get sufficient rewards and that sn children keep getting lots of praise points, so I asked you about you system for rewarding all the children.

You do have a behaviour policy, so what is the reward system for those other students who, in your eyes, are not getting recognised.

In my children's school there is a Level 1, 2, 3 and 4 reward system. It's a bit like the Level 1, 2, 3 and 4 sanction system. Good behaviour is rewarded as equally as unwanted behaviour is sanctioned.

What does your good behaviour reward policy?

Starlight - we're talking about different things.

The targets you are talking about are in students' PLPs at my school and these are discussed with all staff after the child and their parents have helped the SENCO to put them together.

Praise can't just be linked to those targets though as students deserve to be praised for other things too. Fairenuff suggested that praise should be linked to targets.

Academic targets are, as you say, a bit shite - particularly for students who think those targets are out of reach.