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Second Appeal Hearing Help/Advice Please...

52 replies

RockinHippy · 12/09/2014 11:09

We've finally just got a date for our second appeal hearing

  • for those of you that don't already know - This is after a long,next remedy stressful drawn out farce, which ended with the local government ombudsman upholding our complaint against the LA & Appeal itself on several counts & pretty much agreeing we should have won our first, medical grounds appeal to get DD into our closest/easiest to get yo school.

2 things I'm not happy about with this appeal date letter & I'm needing to know what my rights are & what I can insist on.

  1. The letter gives a date - but no time - the date is less than 2 weeks away

Letter just says time will be confirmed in due courseHmm - not impressed at all by this as we intend to/need legal help with this second hearing as I do not trust our LA to play fair at all anymore - We have the offer of legal help/lawyer from a local children's disabilities charities for our second appeal hearing, but naturally we need to be able to tell them a time too - is there any guidelines on this that our LA should be following ???

2.The way the letter is written, they are obviously intending to use our original appeal evidence for this hearing/appeal panel too.

One of the MANY issues with our original appeal was that the copy of my evidence sent to me, was a complete indecipherable mess - it also included reams of print offs of emails between myself & our MP & people he emailed on to - where I had asked for help with what I still believe was an error in the original assessment - this in itself was repeat copies of the same emails & made for a thick wad of unnecessary & very confusing paperwork that had nothing to do with the appeal.

Much if the rest if the evidence was printed off extremely badly too, 1 page doctors letters on the second page of info booklets etc & I found it difficult to follow - & I'd sent it in in its correct easy to follow format.

I did complain about this at the time & it was meant to have been sorted out, but by the appeal & ombudsman complaint outcome - I suspect it never was, or at least not properly.

I wasn't to resubmit all this evidence again myself - printed off & bundled up in the correct order, so that I know for sure that it is correct this time - this includes a slightly newer, recently updated version of an important information booklet which I ordered earlier this week.

Can I insist on doing this ??

TIA Flowers

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kormasutra · 04/10/2014 14:57

Thanks tiggytape:) x

tiggytape · 03/10/2014 07:51

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tiggytape · 03/10/2014 07:50

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kormasutra · 03/10/2014 07:48

Hi! As you know I've been through a horrendous appeal situation too with the efa involved but have been thinking about you.
Just looked for an update and read this, am so pleased for you and your dd:)

My ds is very happy and settled at his second choice school and has surprised everybody with his travelling alone on 4 buses a day with absolutely no problems. I totally underestimated his capabilities!

It wasn't meant to be for us, I can see that now but it clearly was in your situation.
Well done for fighting so hard, enjoy uniform shopping and give yourself a huge pat on the back.

( formerly known as appealtakingovermylife ) xx

inthename · 30/09/2014 19:20

Huge congratulations x

Swagamama · 30/09/2014 11:21

Ditto what Idespair said.

IdespairIreallydo · 30/09/2014 09:34

Congratulations RockinHippy from another lurker who has been amazed at your perseverance and hard work. I hope your daughter settles in quickly.

YonicScrewdriver · 30/09/2014 07:29

Well done!

LIZS · 30/09/2014 07:17

Fantastic news, well done on your persistence.

mummytime · 30/09/2014 07:09

Congratulations!

admission · 29/09/2014 22:46

well isn't that interesting. Of course it's purely co-incidental that when the pressure was applied and you would not give in that a place just appeared!
Well done, have a nice evening without this worry and get on the phone at 9 tomorrow

Blu · 29/09/2014 21:16

Very very happy for you, RockinHippy.

I have been following all this as a lurker, and am so pleased it has finally been resolved.

You shouldn't have been put through it, your DD shouldn't have been put through it, but now - huge congratulations, and all the best to your dd for HER NEW SCHOOL!!!!

lougle · 29/09/2014 20:51

That's fantastic news!

woodlands01 · 29/09/2014 20:43

YES!!!! - so pleased for you. How you have coped with this pressure for so long is amazing. You should be proud of yourself and your daughter will be proud of you too.

prh47bridge · 29/09/2014 19:32

Excellent news! I'm glad its all over.

Messygirl · 29/09/2014 19:26

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titchy · 29/09/2014 19:03

Fantastic news! GrinGrinGrin

RockinHippy · 29/09/2014 19:00

Just a quick update

& A HUGE THANK YOU, TO ALL WHO HAVE ADVISED & SUPPORTED ME THROUGH THIS

I absolutely couldn't have done it without you - MN at its best Flowers :)

Since my to the point & holding no punches, email about the waste of tax payers money etc, was read by our Councillor this morning - the SA have just emailed to say that "a place has become available" for DD at this school :) :) :) :) :)

I have to ring to accept the offer, which is obviously too late now & I hopefully will have news of a start date then, I'm expecting it will be after the school holidays, but just having that to look forward to is enough :)

DD & I both broke down in tears when we got the news, the relief is immense - I can now get on with my life again!!!!

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RockinHippy · 29/09/2014 14:19

Thanks Admissions I really appreciate your opinion on this too, I really can't for the life of me see how they can wriggle out if it, not just that the first appeal hearing verdict was flawed, but that the original assessment was flawed too. According to SA the CCP originally turned DD down as a MN for this school.

Yet no written evidence of that existed when the LGO asked for it & though I submitted one extra consultants letter listing DDs sub diagnoses for the CCP this time round & knew I could argue that point as new evidence if needed, nothing had really changed at all since the original application - ALL of these conditions were clearly listed as symptoms of the condition in the information booklets, including the NHS print out & "DD clearly suffers with quite marked CFS" & vulnerability to injury, was mentioned in the original consultants letter, which is a large part of why she needs this school.

A doctor would have seen & understood ALL of that with my original application, so yet another reason why I believe this was one big mess up from day one & they have ass covered & lied & lied.

I now have the hearing date, which is the date they thought, 3 weeks after the cancelled date - so 3 weeks more of limbo for DD, who is too embarrassed to see/keep in touch much with her school friends as she can't give an answer when they ask her when she will be joining them in school :( It was her birthday this week & the only friend she wanted to spend it with, was her very old friend who now lives in another area, so unlike her as she is usually such a social butterfly & always wants a party

I have been in touch with our councillor again & they have replied & are looking into the situation, I complained about the waste if LA money for another hearing, along side the effect this situation is having on us all, when it's clear there has been an error from day one - fingers crossed they can help.

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admission · 25/09/2014 22:59

So it goes on and on and I do really have every sympathy with you as they just seem to go from one set of problems to a different set. It has got to be good news about the medical evidence having now been accepted to give higher priority because I find it difficult to believe that they can wriggle out of accepting that the original decision was flawed. That has got to be positive but then you never know with any appeal.

RockinHippy · 25/09/2014 19:36

Brilliant, thank you :)

I've since had a very vague response back from them, one that I later realised could be tricky, so I've asked for clarification in plain English.

Not that I'm getting paranoid or anything Blush

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prh47bridge · 25/09/2014 17:29

No reason at all. You can use it. If you can show that the LA is now giving priority on the same evidence on which your daughter was previously refused priority that shows the original decision was wrong.

RockinHippy · 25/09/2014 16:28

My imagination has obviously ran riot - so sick of this stress it's literally driving me nutsBlush

Turns out all appeal hearing have been cancelled today for the same reason - DDs friend has just been chatting with her & told her they've had theirs cancelled too.

Can I ask - as we will now be given a date at least nearly 3 weeks away - Would you know if there is an reason why I can't used the email telling me that the CCP has approved DD for Medical Need & put her top of the schools waiting list??

I've emailed it to appeals already & asked, but have had no reply as of yet, which is unusual, so I Want to be prepared with a response if they say no - I've looked & I can't see any reason myself, but obviously I'm no expert Blush - though I Think I might be after this farce Hmm

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RockinHippy · 25/09/2014 10:54

This is the thing though, this is where I think the ass covering & lying comes in lougle

I have never believed that they assessed our original application properly - first person I spoke with in the SA office after receiving our email offer of a school, sounded really puzzled when she pulled up our file, & agreed that it looked like something had gone wrong & to leave it to them & they would get back to me.

I then get an email from the head honcho telling me otherwise & insisting that both forms I submitted were correctly assessed together, including the medical evidence.

Yet the paperwork clearly said that postal applications will get a postal reply & online applications will get an email reply - our email reply started off with - thank you for your online application, which was an incorrect & incomplete form, as thanks to their website not working properly with our MAC, I couldn't fill it in properly - the form wouldn't accept the correct form of DDs name & kept changing it, allowed only one school choice, couldn't attach medical evidence, covering letter etc etc.

The email referred to DD by the abbreviated version of her name that the online form changed it to.

This formed part of our original complaint & why on the advice of a friend who had the same problem a couple of years earlier & it was sorted out by her MP, we asked our MP for help. This seemed to get backs up & make the situation worse, though by appeal stage I realised I was on a hiding to nowhere with this point & dropped it in favour of fighting the appeal mainly on the medical need grounds - I had already been told by SA that only Statemented DCS were accepted as medical need at application stage anyway, so seemed no point pursuing this point.

During our LGO complaint, this came up again & the LAs response was that I must have misheard, or misunderstood & that they hadn't told me this - but they definitely did - my hands cramp up at times & as a result I had the phone on loud speaker - DH was in the room with me & he heard it tooHmm

I noticed when reading the LAs response to the LGOs request for paperwork, that the LGO noted there was no email or written response from the CCP as regards the medical need assessment & that the LA had told the LGO the decision was "verbal communication" Hmm

When I submitted my medical needs waiting list request, I half expected them to refuse it, as I had read that they only accept this if there's a change in circumstances etc. I was prepared to argue this point, as due to other issues with DDs first primary school, I had since taken DD to see a specialist consultant in her condition in London, who was fantastic - this resulted in a long point by point letter listing all DDs problems & what she needed. This wasn't actually a new diagnosis, just a better letter, but I intended to argue this point if I had too - I didn't need to.

But DDs original letter of diagnosis was clear enough, mentioned that DD clearly suffered with "marked fatigue" & several other relevant symptoms & referred to a specialist charity organisation for further information & advice, whose information booklets I submitted first time round along with NHS print outs listing all the symptoms, OT report etc

So there was really no real change, just an additional letter, which also mentioned the school by name, plus an extra OT & GP letter supporting her need for our closest school & a point by point break down from me as to why she needs this school. The info was all the same, same diagnosis, same symptoms, same needs were clear in the paperwork submitted, but obviously in the circumstances of us losing our appeal, I had really gone to town on making it idiot proof.

We also know for fact thanks to friends in the right places, that the SA website went live without the proper checks & there was a lot of problems with it as a result & also that they have been in trouble for this before - but obviously that's not something we can use, but it does explain the ass covering that appears to be going on.

I really don't know what to expect now to be honest - if they were fair, then you would be right titchy but nothing they have done so far has been fair, so I won't hold my breath - but no way in hell am I just going to roll over with this Hmm

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lougle · 25/09/2014 08:55

Not necessarily. If the CCG originally advised the LA that she didn't need special treatment, then they can say they made their decision based on that advice.

If the position has changed because of new evidence, they can say they made the decision based on the evidence of that time.

However, if it was the original evidence used and they made the 'wrong' decision, you're right.