Please can someone answer this simple question about state selective schools?

My dh went to grammar school, I went to a comprhensive school. We both got a 2:1. What does that prove? precisely zero.

My DH is of an age where he was selected for the "technical grammar" or some such (passed the 11+, chose or was chosen for a technical education, did mainly O levels rather than CSEs but did a couple of technical CSEs). After he'd started at that school it merged with the grammar school, and there was also a secondary modern/high school for those who did not pass.

I went to a selective private school but neither of these automatically mean we want our DC to go to selective or private schools. It will depend on where we are living when they are old enough and what the schools are like there.

My best friend's 14 year old ds is at a top private school (you will have heard of it) has already been caught watching hardcore porn online and has spent his entire holiday grunting at her and playing on his x box.

I don't want my son having anything to do with him atm!

Honestly the hysteria about the horrors of comprehensive schools on bloody Mumsnet makes me .

Also my XHs school (one of the top private schools now if league tables are anything to go by) seemed to have issues with awful behaviour such as children climbing out of windows in lessons, from what he's told me. Although maybe things are different now.

If you hadn't been able to afford private school though LaQueen do you still feel that your DDs would have altered so radically at a comprehensive school? The majority of children go to state schools so there are surely other parents who are committed to their children's learning at them.

Afaik in the German system they decide at the age of about 10 (after 4th Class at their 1st school) although I think there is more fluidity to move between different types of school.

As a parallel, the independent sector also has selective, superselective, comprehensive and the equivalent of high schools (ie only a few high attainers).
Parents don't complain if their DCs end up in the latter, they see it as best suiting their DC. However they do have a choice, the schools provide extracurricular and are paying for an education which they hope will best help their DC progress. Some parents send their DCs to 'selective' others choose to send to 'comprehensive' independent. Again DCs may suit different environments.
Selective vs high school does in theory allow pooling expertise of teachers who are best skilled to teach the different ends of the spectrum. Many teachers are n't equal proficient at both.

I like grammars for most of the reasons laqueen states. Less trouble, nicer children, supportive parents. You get nice children with supportive parents at comprehensives too but you also get the horrors. And if you have an easily led child that could lead to bad outcomes for them

The problem with this is the vertical concept of 'top' selection and 'bottom'.

If there is to be selection, there should be selection for technical schools as well. In fact there is, for schools like the 'Brit' school. Just because someone gets into a Grammar doesn't mean they are 'lower' than someone who gets into a Drama or a music school. There should be schools for children with all skills and the comprehensive school should remain for those who just don't know yet and can sometimes become very successful in life precisely because they have kept their options open.

But please let's have more schools where young people can excel in skills other than academic ones.

It's quite interesting looking at the smiling gorgeous blonde girls GCSE success stories here in Kent. A number of the high schools (secondary moderns by any other name) produce a considerable number of candidates with loads of A/As - and not all the grammar schools have 100% of students with five A-Cs (although every grammar has a number of students with straight A/As). I think the moral of this story is that children can do very well even if they fail a test taken on one day at one point in their lives.

I feel glad in some ways that there are no selective schools here as then I would be in a dilemma about what I would want to happen in terms of my DCs education.

I wonder how much parental input has to do with how children achieve - LaQueen do you really feel that if you had lived in an area with non-selective schools that your DDs would have so drastically altered? Education has always been valued in my family - I went to a comprehensive school where the full range of ability and parental interest was there but this didn't mean that my expectations were lowered.

It's hardly surprising that someone living in a grammar school area wants their kid to go to the grammar school. I don't want anyone's child to be written off at 11, but least of all my own.

And since we are bringing up MN history, I must admit to major LOLs at the thought LaQueen offspring would go to a sink secondary modern rather than private.

the average improvement in grades is significantly less than one

I did say up to one grade. It depends on which study you read - some find a bigger effect than others. A few find an improvement greater than one grade but most research seems to suggest an improvement of around 0.75 of a grade. A few studies find no improvement at all.