Querying the streaming arrangements?

It seems like at DD's secondary that everyone in the same yr group (205 intake) has the same subject at the same time (English, math, PE, whatever). So it's extremely easy to move sets and moving sets rarely disrupts anything else. Plus side of bigger schools, maybe.

A lot of this kind of thing is to do with timetabling issues.
Timetabling is notoriously difficult and arranging different ability sets in a wide range of subjects,almost impossible to timetable in most schools. So most will use a core subject to create ability sets and use those sets as the classes for a range of related subjects. So it is not unusual for the groups for science to be the same as for Maths (and Maths determined) and for Geography and History and RS to be the same as for English (English determined). So the crucial ones are always English and Maths.

The other subjects which can sometimes have a knock-on effect into other subjects are Modern Languages. So for example,if you choose French over Spanish or German, you may well find you are also with those who study French for other subjects...could be Humanities or DT, or Art or whatever.

It is disappointing to find that you are not in the top group,when you are great at that subject, because the setting is determined by ability in another subject. However, it really is unavoidable.

If it is due to timetabling, the school is unable to do anything about it, unless the Maths set is altered. If you are concerned, when expressing that concern, it is good to ask exactly when a review will be happening and ask to come in at that point to discuss it further. If they are vague about when people might moved up or down groups, ask for an appointment to discuss your child's progress after half term. When schools know you are closely following what is going on and that they are going to have to explain their actions, you often find there is a favourable outcome! Getting involved and voicing your concerns often yields better dividends than keeping quiet And hoping things work out.

Of course no one really knows. I am a Governor and do not know individual details. If I were to ask they may tell me but, if it were allowed, I am sure it would (quite rightly) be completely anonymised. If you go on playground/parent banter you still do not know if it is true.

I actually think it is a good thing for children to face these sort of things. I flew through school and college but failed one exam on my way to qualifying. I later passed but it taught me a great deal - including an empathy for those who had to work exceptionally hard to simply meet the pass criteria.

If you look, there can be positives from most experiences - the OPs daughter will find she has to dig deep and use self study skills to move her out of this situation and, when someone in the real-world says "you can't" she will be well prepared knowing inside "Oh yes I can - just you watch me"

Do parents usually know these things, like each and every set & the entire set structure for the whole year in every subject?
Does your school actually publish all the info very clearly?
Why should parents have to be notified about changes?

DD notices because she's ultra-competitive. So I'm well-informed there.

My 3 boys are almost oblivious about their sets and sometimes or maybe often given incorrect information when they do mention anything about their sets or relative ability.

I suppose it's good to pay attention because some schools must get it very wrong for some kids... but The MN level of awareness & concern seems extraordinarily (unnecessarily??) high.

I'm very keen to ask secondary teachers how often they get parents requesting info about why their child is in set X. DD says that one parent kicked up a stink about her DD should be in top set English (yr7). The girl stayed there for 3 months & was moved down again. I wonder if that was a healthy challenge or a bit depressing for the girl.

Being top of a second set can be better than towards the bottom of first set. It means a chance to properly consolidate new ideas and concepts. Especially in selective schools where a top set can contain a few kids who are very very good and who can either dominate or intimidate.

A lot depends on the teacher. My daughter yo-yo'ed between top and second sets. One top set teacher was hopeless at explaining, relying on bright kids to get it first time. Another was great and she felt she was being properly stretched. Second set built her confidence and a good teacher set plenty of extension work for those who finished quickly.

Kids change. As maths and science get harder, the naturals emerge. Some very bright kids will find themselves struggling with, say, chemistry. I don't know about state but the private schools we know are still shifting maths sets around after AS.

similar issue with a sudden change from seperate sets to streaming maths and science together. I've had no notification and already been told its been decided because of the timetable. That really sends the message to my ds that he doesn't matter as they are only doing this to 3 students - hows that for random policies! He doesn't want to talk to his form tutor either as knows he'll be told to get on with it. Any suggestions what to say when I meet with his headmaster

It's a good strategy to have, self reliance. It's something students often struggle with when they have to do it at level 3. However, if she is capable and offered the move up I would still encourage her to take it especially as it will place her more correctly for science.

She wouldn't move up given the chance? Why on earth not? Please don't encourage her to throw her toys out of the pram over this.

They have their rules on who goes where which, by definition, means a few just miss out on the top group and a few just squeeze in. That's life: you win some, you lose some. It's not personal. At least it is a formula that you can understand. She may think it crude but it would actually be even worse for the losers if they took subjective things into account (which some do) and a higher test scorer was to miss out on a top set place to a lower test score because if some subjective measure.

Same can happen with final exam grades - some students even miss out on their top choice University place because a grade comes in at one percentage lower than the required grade boundary. Happened to a friend of mine this year and his missed grade was in History - not even English (which is his degree subject choice).

If she ends up working at the top of set 2 for maths, perhaps she will get moved up. My nephew was moved down to set 2 to help increase his confidence in the subject and then moved back up to set 1 again. I think I'd be trying to help my dd see the situation in the best light. You could be doing her more of a disservice to support her idea that none of the students she will be working alongside in Year 9 will be bright, studious and motivated to do well. Unless you happen to know yourself who they all are. I hope it all works out.

Hmmm, that's tricky if she feels like that. Does this have more to do with friendship groups as the underlying cause, or does she tend to be hard on herself generally when she perceives herself as not achieving as highly as she would like? I say perceives because she is clearly doing well in maths, despite any set she has been placed in.

How much of a difference is it really going to make? Is it an independent school? (igcse) If so, is there going to be much ability difference between your DD and the other pupils in her designated set?

So close. However if its any consolation I went to a school that didn't offer further/additional maths and I still have a good mathematics degree from a RG university. I probably had to make a greater step up between GCE to A Level but this was useful later on.

In my DCs school where they are "set" by subject then any appeals are directly to the head of the respective department.

However if they "stream" then perhaps you need to appeal to the year head.

My DCs school explains how they set in their handbook although it's a bit loose - based on previous years test results with a little moderation (taking into account performance in class, homework and trend over year). I've never appealed but friends have used the "moderation" clause to successfully get their kids moved up. The one I know got his DSs class teacher to back him up (DS never revised for tests in Y7-Y9 but was excellent in class).

I'd try to find out as much as possible about how they decide streams so that you can put your case in the best light.

think it unlikely

I would find it unlikely that the setting/streaming has been worked out on one examination alone. Are you sure that is the case?