DH had decided DD should not go to grammar school - Help!

Sadly in ds' school it is not the brightness and good grades that bring about the superiority and bullying, but rather the childs wealth and parentage...

QQS at our school any air of superiority or arrogance is usually knocked out quite quickly when those used to being at the top suddenly aren't. From that point of view selective schools are an excellent leveller. Same goes for the best universities, if by any chance a student turns up convinced wrongly that they're the bees knees and the cleverest thing since sliced bread.

smokepole many, many grammars are on the cusp of joining the few which have already adopted the 'untutorable for' tests. That can only be good.

(and I think yours is the strongest voice scorning 'brutal tutoring' anyway! I don't really care how anyone gets there - or, I do, but I'm more concerned with the broader unfairness and invidious nature of such a system.)

Nope. As I said earlier in the thread, I recognise the school from her and her ex husband's posts as the school my child attends. The school is great educationally but my child is having a terrible time there with bullying that isn't being addressed by the staff at all.

LQ I know you are pleased, and that is of course good. I'm not being especially anti-grammar on this - just that the idea of who is tutored purely for a bit of familiarity and who is tutored to within an inch of his life is a bit subject to construction. And like most, I did find the 'shoulder rubbing' comment a bit dubious!

And is Rowan the OPs ex sister in law, or neighbour?

Is this a private reunion thread?

supadoula's daughter's potential school takes the top 30% and successfully caters for a wide ability range. Any concerns about friendships and bullying should be carefully considered because this is the area that is a particular problem in this school.

Jesus, there are some offensive attitudes on this thread.....

I believe that a bright child can do well in any good school, but Britain being the Elitist society that it is, having attended a good grammar or independent will look good on any resume and welcome the child into "the club" and set him/her apart.

My son gained a place at an independent. He was a bright child doing very well at his nurturing and outstanding primary.

He is stressed with the pressure at the independent, and he is frustrated by not being in the top set anymore. OPs daughter has a valid concern here.

I honestly think that a school that can turn out a good education for a myriad of children of different ability levels is BETTER at education than a school were all the children start very high up the ladder. Ops ex seem to recognize this.

My son did not know anybody when he started s 7. He was looking forward to starting s 7 and making new friends, and he is not looking forward to starting s 8 now. I asked him why the difference and he said "I did not know last year that most of the other children are superior arseholes" So, now I am not looking forward to s 8 either. Ops daughter is right to be concerned about friendships and fitting in. However, friendships should not be dictating where a child is educated.

If you are of the belief that there is more to a childs development than a (at least on paper) good education, you may chose to go for the school where the child may shine and build up their confidence, rather than building it down.

That is just my take. (And yes, we are anticipating a change in schools for our son before Christmas, and I will be to a outstanding state secondary we have been in touch with)

Hakulut. The reason I say refused entry, because plainly she was of 'selective ability' I was also told that if the 'Head ' of the primary school had backed an appeal she would likely have been admitted. The reason the head refused was because of ' idealogical' reasons he 'loathes' grammar schools and believes the only way to improve the 'high schools' are for bright children
like DD1 to go to them. ( I am so 'pleased' he choose to use DD1 as a political football). DD1 is Dyslexic and probably could not see all the dots on a NVR exam.
DD1 has been very 'fortunate' that his decision has not 'Fucked' her future and was down to the fact of sending her to the least worst available Modern school and to live with her father.

The result has been that DD1 came out with ABB at A2, (the only A grade this year from her school) and a place @ Leicester for Forensic Science.

DD2 'only' just passed her 11+ with 362 she was struggling massively in year 7 ( the school advised moving her) she was diagnosed with moderate Dyspraxia the resulting help has enabled her to go from ' the girl who should not be there' to hopefully attaining 4A* and 4As for her GCSEs next June and eventually in to teaching ( though her attitude 'I only want to teach grammar and private needs to change').

"Hakulut. I believe those who have academic ability (especially those from difficult backgrounds) need to be separated to achieve their best."

That's what top sets are for.

Hakulut. I believe those who have academic ability (especially those from difficult backgrounds) need to be separated to achieve their best.

I was educated at ' La Manche' in Folkestone in the 80s which was a 'sink' school , the truth though even if it had been a Comprehensive it still would have been a 'sink'. Grammar schools at least give/gave 'some' kids the chance of a good learning environment. Academic selection is not wrong, what is wrong though is to base it on one day and for the exams to take no account of Dyspraxia/ Dyslexia when deciding on some-ones academic potential.

The interesting thing though is that the few who pass the 11+ with Dyspraxia/Dyslexia symptoms after initially struggling can go on to be the highest achievers at grammar school.

The 11+ needs to stay but has to be 'radically' changed so that bright children whose parents cannot afford 'training' get in. The 11+ also should not discriminate against bright children who suffer from 'learning disabilities'.

Hi super and dot1ng, I am wondering who out of you two is dd's main carer? Who ever that is I would say has the most 'right' to co-choose the school with dd.

I believe a child's happiness is more important than academic achievement.

"DD1 was refused entry to grammar despite scoring 380 out of 420 in 2007 (360) is deemed a pass in Kent because she only scored 104 on NVR (118) being the lowest score , accepted on any of the three categories"

Interesting. Why do you say "refused entry" when what happened was that your dd didn't pass the 11+?

I know you never had any such suspicion LoQ, but I think you must see that your argument is a little fortuitous.

I'm sure a lot of the parents of 'the brightest and best' (with those all-important shoulders) will have oft-repeated mantras like, 'Of course DC would have walked the 11+ with a bag on his head, but we just really felt he would benefit from a few years gaining familiarity with the layout of the papers, a soupcon of homework and just the odd practice test'.

"I am in favour of academic selection at 11,"

Why?

To avoid confusion I meant for entry to year 7 September 2007.

Word I'd definitely argue that there's no necessary correlation between 'brightest' and 'best'. I'd also agree that grammars especially in grammar areas are really not very selective at all, in the scheme of things. I also think masses of not great indies set a test which almost no kid could fail, so that the kid is then thought by suggestible parents to have been 'selected' - in other words just quite a crude marketing ploy.

1300 girls Queen - I can't think of anything worse! Mixed is way better. My girls would have gone potty, upped sticks and left.

Yes Nit, it seems to be standard form to deny that ones kids were tutored even when they were tutored to within an inch of their lives. Favoured line seems to be claiming that the brilliant kid in question only had extra lessons to be 'stretched', as it was so bored at its primary:) Or to say 'only an hour a week plus homework'......

I am in favour of academic selection at 11, its how you choose though that needs looking at. DD1 was refused entry to grammar despite scoring 380 out of 420 in 2007 (360) is deemed a pass in Kent because she only scored 104 on NVR (118) being the lowest score , accepted on any of the three categories. The point is to judge some-ones academic ability on a test on one day and take no account of some-ones Dyslexia when doing NVR proves success at the 11+ is 'random' and takes no account of 'disability'.

To say that they are full of only the 'very brightest' is not true obviously they are bright kids but you need to be aware of equally bright kids who failed a random test!.

The truth though is no matter how random the system can be, you really need to take advantage of the offer of a place.

There's a huge difference between children intensively tutored for 2 years, just to scrape a bare pass - and children who perhaps do some prep/tutoring and achieve really high scores

Well, quite - and one of those differences is probably in the way their parents spin it, no?