DH had decided DD should not go to grammar school - Help!

If your local schools are a war zone or a place where kids get beaten up for getting full marks in maths they are unusually poor schools and therefore I understand you wanting an alternative.

I don't like grammars because I don't believe in selection at 11. I also want to educate my children in their local community, not bus them across town. That is why I don't choose to send my children to a grammar, not because of my experience of a few schools. That applies to all grammars. I suppose in a similar way you could choose to send your child to a grammar simply because you believe in separating your child from most other children.

In addition to that I don't like the the four grammars that I have experience of. I don't criticise all grammars because the few I have been into are of a poor quality and that is not why I would not choose a grammar regardless of where I lived. You seemed to be saying that your children are not at comprehensives because they are all dens of iniquity, although of course if you are living in a grammar area you won't have comprehensives unless like me you live on the edge or just outside the grammar area.

In fact if I remember rightly your decision to send your children to a grammar is about wanting to keep your children apart from the majority and while I don't agree I at least respect your honesty.

But if you were driving out of your naice area into a warzone to teach, surely these were not the schools that your children would attend.

Nationally it may not make much of a difference but in the areas with grammar schools it does. The secondary moderns which are the alternative to the grammars are awful places. All the areas surrounding the grammar school areas have great comprehensives, go into the grammar school area and there are some truly awful schools.

My eldest is at a grammar and lesson are not routinely disturbed, however bullying is not dealt with and teaching is dull ( although because of his special needs that suits him) and poor. There was also no support for him in the subjects where he looked unlikely to get an A/A*. His special needs were also not supported. He will get into a top university and I know that his school will cite him in their promotional material and it makes me very annoyed because they have very little to do with his success. So yes I do pity him.

It must have been absolute hell on earth LaQueen because I have worked in inner city schools and never recognise your description of a secondary school classroom. I would have thought that you would have lived and worked somewhere naicer.

Mumtryingherbest - but a lot of places will be siblings whose brothers or sisters passed the exam in the preceding years (so likely thise siblings would have passed the academic selection in any case. (I'm one of four girls and we all passed the 11+), and then the 35% selective places are taken up by more wealthy people who live in the wealthy commuter belt. Parmiters admits 10% under the proximity to school criterion then after siblings, medical, academic, musical ability/aptitude, they finally return to the distance list.

It would be interesting to know how many (%) get admitted under the distance rule. It's probably quite easy to find out. I'll look tomorrow.

www.parmiters.herts.sch.uk/admissions/admissions-criteria-explained/

I meant the school that's in Chorleywood, the name escaoes me. Not Dr Challoner's sorry.

Polonium If you look at a map you will see all those schools are in close proximity (Dr Challoner's (comp), Rickmansworth School, Watford Boys', Watford Girls', Parmiters) and they are all based in the expensive commuter belt. Dr Challoner's is in Bucks not Herts and the 11 plus test for this school is CEM so a completely different format. What's more it is a couple of miles from Watford. Chesham Grammar (also a Bucks Grammar) is closer but still an hour journey away via public transport.

With regards to Parmiters, I have to question you comment about wealth as this particular school has three bedroom houses like these within half a mile of the school (so very much within the catchment):
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47732147.html
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-31685145.html

The houses nearest Parmiters are actually amongst the cheapest in Watford.

However, your comments are true of Watford Boys and Watford Girls.

If you look at a map you will see all those schools are in close proximity (Dr Challoner's (comp), Rickmansworth School, Watford Boys', Watford Girls', Parmiters) and they are all based in the expensive commuter belt.

So what we have driving the results is as usual: wealth. Wealth is a form of selection on its own.

smokepole The sixth forms of the Hertfordshire schools must be 'very Selective' in the make up of students from what I understand, children already in the school automatically stay on for 6th form provided they get the minimum requirements (which certainly at Watford Girls Grammar and Parameters the majority of them do). Basically the vast majority of the 6th form is made up of those children already in the school (as is evident in their GCSE results). There are not huge numbers that leave. Therefore they are no more selective at 6th form than they are for year 7.

Mum. I see someone has posted a link to the Performance Tables.

Another thing you will see by looking at different statistics , that most grammar schools don't have 100% high ability pupils and can have as low as 68% like DDs grammar. The majority of grammar schools have between 85% -95% of high ability students , in reality not that much difference from the make up of the Hertfordshire schools. The sixth form achievements from the Hertfordshire schools are up there with the most selective grammar schools. The sixth forms of the Hertfordshire schools must be 'very Selective' in the make up of students.

Totally agree with Blu.
I live in a grammar area and have no problem with grammars .
However, the scaremongering about the ' local comps ' really annoy me

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=136899

smokepole To answer your question Parmiter's has 73% high ability students 25% middle ability students and 2% low ability students. Watford Girls has 75% high ability 23% middle ability and 2% low ability students. This is interesting, could you post a link for me to where this information can be found. I would be interested in seeing how it compares with the other consortium schools. Thanks.

smokepole Parmiter's and the Watford Schools are 'Grammar' schools lying under the 'Political Correctness 'banner by being called Comprehensives. so how are these schools achieving this with only 25% academic selection where as schools with 100% academic selection are not?

You know deep down if she goes to less academic school she will coast, she will be top of the class doing not much and then get into bad habits

Until very recently I taught in a comprehensive/secondary modern, every year we sent students to Oxbridge and every year a large number to RG Universities. If teachers are doing their job properly and parents support the school - bright children will not coast in comprehensives.

Polonium - LaQueen - as you live in a GS area, your local non-selective school is likely to be less comprehensive than a comprehensive in a non-grammar area. given that the GS they chose has no catchment, I'm not sure that will be the case in the area they live in.

What I would question, based on the comments LaQueen has made, is whether they actually bothered to visit any of the non selective schools in their area.

'LaQueen, in an area where there are no grammars, where do you think the really really bright kids go? Academy Outer Space?

They go to what you call the 'local comp' (why are grammars in all-grammar areas not called 'the local grammar' in that dismissive way, I wonder?)'

No, some of them go to the comp, some of them go private. The proportion will vary massively depending on the general wealth of the area but it can be quite high.
We recently moved from a comprehensive area with a private school in town to one without. Makes a big difference to the average attainment levels at the local comprehensives.

'Sorry' Mum for taking time to get back , I got lost because of the three similar threads going on.

To answer your question Parmiter's has 73% high ability students 25% middle ability students and 2% low ability students. Watford Girls has 75% high ability 23% middle ability and 2% low ability students. This is actually a more academic make up than both DD2 and DS grammar's in Kent that have only 68% and 70% high ability students. There is no question that the 73% and 75% high ability students and possibly the majority of the middle ability students are 'grammar' school kids. Parmiter's and the Watford Schools are 'Grammar' schools lying under the 'Political Correctness 'banner by being called Comprehensives.