Oxbridge minimum 8 A* GCSE results ???

Lots of great advice here. I wonder if the opposition between 'academic-related' and 'job-related' interests is a bit of a false dichotomy? If I think of our students, many of what start out as subject-related interests (i.e. writing, journalism, book-reviewing, drama, music, running book clubs, tutoring younger students, setting up websites etc), become job-getting interests in the end. There is no 'formula' for what we are looking for - this is why we look at every single application on an individual basis.

I know it's really important to be honest about our high standards and the competition for places (especially if we are asking applicants to commit one of their UCAS spaces to us), but I wonder whether talking too much about 'stellar', 'exceptional', 'perfect' performance (at GCSE, AS, A2, or aptitude test) leads some students, especially from the state sector, to feel that this is all beyond them, and thus not to apply? Do you think that might be the case? It's very hard to find the balance on open days etc between being encouraging and being realistic.

Keble College provides very useful feedback on the admissions process, written by tutors (the ones for English are particularly candid and entertaining). I think what they say is applicable to most colleges and tutors.

www.keble.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/subjects/past-feedback/

No I think results are up this year Womblings: more A*s, less As and some odd blips here and there such as English.

My older DC at Oxford say lots of student are niche; and that lots also don't have a full bag of A*s.

Incidentally none of mine have interests which are subject related - interests yes, subject related no. Really not important at all.

catherine rumbled!

Molio is quite right.

It's fine to agree that not every successful candidate will have perfect GCSE grades. However at Oxford they probably had exceptional aptitude test results and interviewed incredibly well. They will then have to do rather well at A level.

At Cambridge they probably got exceptional AS results (raw scores). And may well be expected to get stellar A level results too.

This isn't to say that anyone without perfect GCSE results should be put off applying, but that they will still need to be exceptional candidates in their own way.

And, results are down across the board this year, aren't they, because of the changes in marking? so in context, your DS probably did as well as or better than my DD who is an Oxford student... Apply.

kittiesInsane that is interesting.DS says they watched an oxford physics webinar at school and this is more or less what thy said.
They were all about 'the genius for the subject' .They are ideally looking for someone with the insight, focus, passion and aptitude to push forward research boundaries in the future..They are really not looking for an alllround mediocrity who has worked their tail off to get top grades across the board.
I do get concerned by some things I read on MN, which I think maybe originated as a comment from one admissions tutor in one department and is extraoplated and 'Chinese-whispered' to become a universal truth.

My DD got in last year from a comp with 8A 3A, so just one more A than your DS.

Last year at Keble College for Biological sciences, 6A* meant an automatic interview, as long as A level predictions were right. www.keble.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/subjects/past-feedback/2013BiologicalSci.pdf

Ds wants to study law and become a barrister. Would his extensive knowledge of Judge Judy help?

Agree. Kids should do what they enjoy without doing it for a ps.

I would add a note of caution to all this. Don't forget getting into Oxbridge is purely about academic ability and focus on the subject you are applying for (with the exception of some international sporting stars). However only a few will continue to be academics, most will be seeking employment. That is the benefit of unrelated activities and experiences (as well of course enjoyment). Luckily many capable of studying at Oxbridge manage to do both but I think it is shortsighted for DC to be directed into pure academic subject related pursuits just so they have a better chance at Oxbridge.

An Oxbridge tutor we know used to say that he rather preferred the obsessive kids, who did extraordinarily well in their one true passion and ignored all attempts to make them do French instead of maths/physics/dolphin studies, to the well-behaved ones who meekly got on with their work regardless of subject.

Also, that's Cambridge not Oxford - very different approach.

In direct answer to the OP, I have a DS starting at Oxford in October for a mainstream humanities subject in a centrally positioned very pretty old college. He went to a state grammar and has 7 A* and 4A so clearly one doesn't need 8 :) He did do exceptionally well on the pre-test though, so that will have helped.

"a friend of my dc got into cambridge last year with just 1 A* GCSE (from a bog standard state school)."

But presumably with 8/9 As.........

A AAAAABBCCC actually. A in subject to be studied of course - I'm not aware of any mitigating circumstances either, though I or my dc wouldn't necessarily know these of course.

Very atypical I'm sure he's an outlier results-wise, but it just goes to show GCSEs are not everything.

virelai, interesting.

DD is dyslexic. At 11 an educational psychlogist suggested she would be fine when she got to 16. When asked why, she explained that at 16 DD would be able to focus on maths and science and drop English and MFL. She showed real aptitiude for maths and science so would then come into her own.

GCSE has been a struggle. DD has done really well though nowhere near as well as friends attending schools like SPGS where all A is almost a given. She is bright and ambitious and the thought that she might be prevented from studying what she wants to study because she is not an all rounder is depressing. My assumption is that this cannot be unusual, and if Universities are seeking the candidates with the most potential, they will be willing to look to AS results and A2 predictions as well as GCSE grades. As the article suggests not being an all A person has some advantages, including learning to accept failure and being realistic about your strengths and weaknesses.

beastofburden has it pretty much spot on. Just to add that it really has to be the individual pupil who is really certain that the particular Oxbridge course and teaching model is right for them - there are so many other options out there, so they must have done their research. It's surprisingly easy to tell in an interview who is there just because they have been pushed and encouraged by school or parents, but their heart isn't really in it.

I would also give them lots of time to do extra reading and to really think and study (i.e. think analytically) about what they are reading.

Some interesting facts on average GCSE score in this article (about half way through):

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/can-a-perfect-run-of-a-gcse-grades-dictate-how-the-rest-of-your-life-will-pan-out-8761839.html

Remember that is the AVERAGE - some will be higher, some lower, some outliers...

(AlmaPudden - you are lying! I know you went to St Claire's - read all about and that second layer of chocolates .)

OP - sorry for highjacking your thread!
We'll do that beastofburden. It will help her to concentrate on her extra reading she needs to do. She is taking History, English, Maths and Music hoping to study Humanities with perhaps some Economics.

There is no secret key to this that you don't know about, honest! Send her to the UNIQ summer school if she can get a place. It's free and it seems to be a very effective way of increasing success rates. I really hope it goes well for her.

beastofburden - thanks! She worked hard to get them

I agree that ppl like me who have very little knowledge of the system are perhaps

unnecessarily hanging on every bit of information they can get their hands on. As it has been said.. little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Xpostede anti

Yes, of course she does, those are good grades. Well done her!

Sorry, it is so frustrating when good kids are put off by anecdote and speculation.

If I was going to plot to get a kid into Oxbridge this is what I would do.

Make sure they take the a level subjects that oxford or Cambridge recommend on their websites for that degree, and select any dont knows from the Russell group facilitating subjects if they wanted extra safety in the choice.

I wouldn't take more than five a levels (science, assuming you do three sciences, maths and further maths) or four for anything else unless they are super confident and all the subjects are strong ones. Lots of ppl get in with three for the humanities. Don't waste their time doing a level general studies. Doing an extra a level in art "for fun" stops being fun quite early on

Book them onto open days

Apply for the UNIQ summer school if they are at state school

Get them to aim for 90-95% in their AS levels if they possibly can, especially for science.

What I would not do is let them think their GCSEs aren't good enough and not apply.

I asked for source of that stat because I am interested in knowing if mg dd with 6xA* 6xA and1xB stands a chance

I agree about the fact that a fair proportion of accepted students are from overseas hence stats are including only A's or equivalent.

Oxford publish statistics on the success rate by qualifications here www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/qualifications

You'll see it's all about threir three best A levels. Get three A* in the right subjects- thats the key. You'll also see that lots of them have overseas qualifications- I don't think 95% of the students even have GCSEs, given how many are overseas candidates.

Ppl with strong a levels may also have strong GCSEs but that would be correlation not causation.

All is good yet on another thread anorher mumsnetter writes that 95% of places are going with those who achieved at least 8* in their gcse's.
I can understand that universities are trying to catch outstanding candidates but if what I wrote above is true students would like to know if that's true.

Back in 1980 when I was the first girl to do my subject and the only comprehensive school student I met at my college, extracurricular stuff was all the rage. There was even something called the "rugby third" which was when we let in Tim nice-but-dim to do something unchallenging because he would be ace on the university rugby team. But this died a long way back. Partly because of the access issue: every oxford tutor knows perfectly well that extracurricular stuff is sold strongly by the fee paying schools as a magic ticket to Oxbridge, while state schools may not be able to do as much. But this is not true any longer. Fee paying schools are slow to accept this in some cases.