Wanting to study medicine

Something that Medusa said reminded me of DD's experience in writing about work experience etc in her Personal Statement. It just goes to show that you can't win!

DD decided fairly early on what she wanted to do and did a Summer School in the subject at the end of Y9. We thought that it would be a good idea to mention it as evidence of long-held interest in her subject. The Head of Sixth said it was OK to mention, but only quickly and in passing. His reasoning was that it was a bit pathetic if the PS was full of three year old information; it's almost on a level with boasting about being made milk-monitor in Y7!

So work experience from Y9 or Y10 is worth mentioning but the real clincher is the more recent, more 'grown up' evidence.

Not necessarily.

Cambridge says:

Applicants must have AS or A Level passes in Chemistry and two of Biology/Human Biology, Physics, Mathematics. At least one pass must be at A Level.
Most applicants for Medicine at Cambridge have at least three science/mathematics A Levels and some Colleges require this and/or ask for particular A Level subject(s). See individual College websites for details.

www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/medicine/

Not saying that you need to aim for Cambridge, but I am assuming they have the strictest criteria (current offers are around AAA) so aim for that and you'll satisfy everywhere else!

Newcastle say:

AAA including Chemistry and/or Biology at A or AS level and excluding General Studies and Critical Thinking. If only one of Biology and/or Chemistry is offered at A or AS level, the other should be offered at GCSE grade A (or Dual Award Science grade A).

www.ncl.ac.uk/undergraduate/degrees/a100/entryrequirements/

There's a good section on the BMA website that focuses on admission to medical school:

bma.org.uk/developing-your-career/medical-student/entry-to-medical-school/entry-requirements

Exam results will be vital. Unless he has at least 6 A at GCSE (and ideally more, with any remainders being As) and predictions of A/A at A level, the application will just be binned.
Of course all the work experience etc will be vital in differentiating those who are just very clever, from those who are very clever and genuinely committed to the subject.
If, after GCSE the results are not good enough, then you have to be realistic and not bother applying. The fact they have done 5 years in a care home etc etc will not be enough.

There are courses for children whose families have not been to university. Most Unis are trying to widen access.....they have people dedicated to helping youngsters understand what is required early enough, to be able to do something g about achieving it. Have a look at Uni websites or phone their admissions departments and ask if there is someone who can give advice, if the school is not really up to it.
Also write to the school and ask for specific careers advice or the contact details of someone outside school who can give it.

It is true, that knowing how these systems works helps. If you do t have that info yourself, then it is possible to track it down, if you and your so. Are determined. And tbh, it is better if he is the one who is determined and shows the initiative about it all.

Is A level maths a must?

my DD1 is at med school..about to start her final year.

She comes from a bog standard comp, and so do many of her cohort :)

Stellar A levels are a must.. it's averaging at A*AA at the mo. Chemistry is often stated, also maths, biology useful but often not essential..but those who don't have it find some aspects much harder in 1st year. DD1 did Maths, Chem, Bio and Psychology.

Work experience vital, and being in St Johns Ambulance is really good, as he will have done a few years by 6th form and that shows commitment. If he can, once 16 he should volunteer at a local old folk's home, or similar, and show he can deal with the boring real life day to day caring; it's far more useful to show this than to shadow a surgeon for a week. Also it will show him whether he really really wants it... it's not for everyone because it is an entire lifestyle, not just a degree! Having said that it's not all work.. DD1 has had a lot of fun too:)

Good luck to him, he is wise thinking about it now:)

Thanks tewn. Endo

baba this is a good site and I'd like to visit the museum too:
www.centreofthecell.org/

online doctor games
www.mydoctorgames.com/

Horrible science? Lots of BBC radio shows on medicine issues?

Just wonder if anyone can suggest some useful and interesting medical sorts of magazines or journals that are suitable for young teenagers. My 11 yr old dd is always fascinated by biology or how our bodies work etc.

Although whether she will even go to uni or what she will end up is hard to know at the moment.

Grades are very very important. The Student Room has useful guides where they list the grades and subjects expected by the individual medical schools but on average you need lots of A* / A at GCSE and three As at A2 (chemistry and other sciences).

Then there is the BMAT or UKCAT (depending on which med school) which they use to discriminate between all the applicants with top grades.

Work experience is also important and agree with others who say that some sort of sustained voluntary work would be useful.

The Student Room is great as it has lots and lots of information as well as forums with other students going through the same thing.

DinoSnores is spot on. When I was on a medical school interview panel we were really just looking for a good comunicator who could gave a stab at answering some ethical and topical questions in a sensible way without getting flustered.

For now the important things are getting the grades, choosing the right A level subjects, getting in some work/caring experience and making sure medicine is for him. There are some courses held by medical schools that give great insight in to the applications process and what bring a doctor is like. I still remember one presenter saying that medicine isn't a job, it's a way of life. He was right.

Some universities have their scoring criteria for UCAS forms available online and are very useful to take a look at.

I agree with twentyten on the nature of voluntary work. The med schools are trying to find the right sort from a pool of academic high achievers these days. Take a look at

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=medicine

to see the profiles UCAS profiles of successful applicants. The lowest average UCAS tariff of people who made it is 487, and almost all med schools have an average score over 500 - that's AAAA, and you can be sure at least 3 of those 4 A levels will be scientifically focused. If you do just the 3 A levels your maximum score on 3A is 420 and that makes you a well below average candidate even at the least demanding school. The top 7 have kids averaging over 550 - e.g. UCL is 587, Cambridge 651. Whether all these really high A level scores make better doctors is another story.

Plan B can be a delayed plan A - apply for physiology or something like that and then do a fast-track med course later. We know someone who pulled that off and is just starting a house job. Persistence can pay!

I am a doctor, so my own experience of getting into medical school is now (eek, just worked out, how did that happen) 17 years out of date, but I am from a very working class family and went to a state school, as did almost all of my class.

In terms of thinking about getting into medicine now, it is competitive and good grades are just one part of it all. Others have mentioned work experience or caring roles as a good plan in terms of being people-people!

Thinking a bit ahead to interviews, we ask things about recent medical or science news stories, what candidates think about current NHS reforms, so he should start reading new stories like that in broadsheets (of different persuasions) or good online sites to have a strong basis.

It will help him decide if he really wants to be a doctor or if one of the biomedical sciences might be better for him.

All three of my DC got accepted by more than one university and I think others over complicate the application. Universities want excellent scientists but also real people who can connect with others on all levels. So work experience is important as is all out of school activities. If your DZc want to be a doctor they will be interested in other people! just let this shine through.

I totally agree that a week shadowing a GP will not be good enough when compared to sustained voluntary work. However, knowing people who are already Doctors and having Doctors in the family provides connections and advice regarding the extra experience that is needed. Somehow, a prospective Medic has to stand out from the rest and having a strong portfolio of relevant experience helps immensely.

Dd went with a friend to talk to a medicine admissions tutor this week- who was very clear that sustained voluntary work in care homes/ age uk matters much more than a week shadowing a doctor. Knowledge of medical ethics etc key.

" everyone else has to work extra hard" I agree. Like a lot of things including 11+. Ime from dc's school nearly always teachers' children passed 11+ every year. I believe knowing the system and being able to provide the right support definitely help. My network and knowledge to education system are very limit. That s why I am looking around already. Of course I also encourage dcs to have a second and even third plans.

The med students I knew at Uni all got 4 As at A level in maths and the three sciences at first attempt.

At the interview they were asked ethical questions eg about abortion.

I think it does help in that it is clear that the DC of doctors have a realistic understanding of the job. My DC all felt that the secret to be successful at interviews was to be less of a scientist and more of a people person IYSWIM. Whilst they all got top grades in science subjects they were able to show other aspects of their personalities. For example DS had been on a tall ship that mixed disabled and able body crew and at his interviews was able to discuss this in detail and DD1 did Graphic Design as an AS level and was asked about this in some detail at interview.

Ooh and she has family members who are GPs - think other posters are right about that helping with work experience.

Not had time to fully read all threads but my step nieces experience may be some help.

She is at UCLH and she got there with a good IB from a very fancy private school, work experience - I think a mixture of UK GP surgery and foreign health clinics (Africa IIRC), Duke if Edinburgh type stuff and a good personal statement. However she was also turned down by a couple of unis, she felt different courses had different ideal candidates and things that stood her in good stead at one place hampered her at another.

So I think do your homework, find a place to fit you.

Good luck

It would be interesting to know if the success rate is more favourable for applicants with one / both parents doctors. Probably not a stat that gets published though.

I think babasheep that it is a mistake to think that work experience should be related to a medical specialism a doctor does not decide upon until relatively well established in his/her career. I would advocate that any work experience is useful and so is something like sports science.

I am always struck by how many sons/daughters of doctors become doctors. They definitely get ahead in the work experience stakes! Everyone else has to work extra hard but it definitely can be done.

The only thing maybe to add is to have a plan B. Medicine is just about the most competitive course, something like 11 applicants for every place, or put in a more negative way close to 90% of applicants are not going to be successful. In no way is this saying your DS should not go for it, just that he should be under no illusion as to how competitive medicine is. High levels of determination and resilience needed alongside all the practical aspects noted in the many excellent posts already.

Agggg, thanks