Wanting to study medicine

We came across the course when researching overseas medical degrees.

My understanding is that the NHS has cut the number of UK degrees it is funding, and is likely to then have to recruit doctors from either British students who have studied abroad or International students who have studied in the UK/EU.

I recognise that fees are higher. However it must be frustrating for the many British students either being forced into taking longer, and expensive, post-grad routes into medicine or training abroad, that grade requirements for International students appear to be so much lower. Want2Be suggests she got an ABB offer because of experience as a lifeguard. The average British student is expected to do so much more than that. At the end of the day it seems a system that will not deliver the best doctors for the UK.

Needmoresleep - Home and EU med and dentistry numbers are limited, so institutions can't take more students even if they want to. And the full cost is met through the NHS for home students, hence why OS student fees are higher.

UCLan is new to Medicine - it hasn't even had its first intake yet, so their published entry requirements are veering on the lenient side for the moment until it has a better idea of the calibre of applicants it attracts.

I guess one of the reasons overseas students entrance grades are lower is partly to do with fees. Eg, it costs £17,000 for first year medicine at Bristol as an overseas fee payer but only £9,000 as a home/EU fees payer.

I agree with Useless. The very bright might be lacking in social skills and I think the medical schools have got it right.

Of course they could ask for 4-5 A levels all at A*, however would they get the right applicants?

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to be rude about private schools. Not at all. My kids went to private schools when they were younger. I was just saying that private school students tend to look better on paper because they do!

What I dont understand is why entry requirements for O/seas students are so much lower. Eg: www.uclan.ac.uk/courses/bachelor_medicine_bachelor_surgery.php

I assume at lease some of these students will remain in the UK, and qualified to practice. Given the shortage of GP etc would it not make more sense to take on more bright UK/EU students?

In terms of grades UselessNess' earlier knee jerk comment about the capability of private school students is depressing. In our case the only state options were schools which had little to no history of sending students to Russell Group Universities, and did not offer the maths/science options at GCSE which would credibly enabled any but the most determined student to apply for medicine. I have no doubt that should DD apply for medicine from the private sector she will need absolutely stellar grades, and hope that similar applicants from our local state school would receive a lower offers to allow for their relative lack of opportunity. However I hope she and others will be considered on the basis of whether they will will make good Doctors, regardless of background.

LittleMissMaths. That's interesting about submitting a FOI to the medical schools. Did you make your findings public. Some medical schools are a lot clearer than others when it comes to their admissions policies.

Have you any thoughts on the future use of the UKCAT scores by the UKCAT Uni's?

The 90% UMs at AS chemistry isn't a bad idea, it does seem crazy for the medical schools to have quite so many applicants. It must be a logistical nightmare for them. It's also pretty harsh on the students who have to wait in limbo for months while the medical schools trawl through all the applicants.

Regardless of the entrance requirements I wouldn't want to go into medicine unless I was very confident of my academic abilities. It's not a field of work where you want to be making mistakes.

Oh, I have heard on the grapevine (not through FOI request) that from next year there is to be an extra hurdle of 90% in AS Chemistry. That will whittle down the numbers applying considerably, and is a welcome new emphasis on ensuring medical students are bright enough.

Most medical schools have a relatively low academic hurdle (no need for A*s at most but yes to A grades). Then it generally comes down to personal statements being graded to see if you have an interview. Exact score grids vary but on the whole credit is given for showing leadership, communication compassion, understanding of role of doctor, resilience, ability to cope under pressure, awareness of social diversity. You can do this in any way you like. At interview, generally there will be marks for getting an ethics question right (usually, what do you do if you come across a drunk colleague), for knowing about the course and for skills graded in the PS.

I know all this because I submitted freedom of information requests to all english medical schools and they were obliged to tell me the exact criteria for getting in. I was shocked at how little emphasis there is on the academic tbh.

From my DC I get the impression, and they all attend different universities, that you have a much better chance of being accepted from the state sector. With the greatest respect the grades required do require you to be super bright and diligent. Not genius but very bright. The assumption that a group of A/A* at GCSE does not require intelligence is fallacious but popular.

Yes it does. And it is true for other courses too. Unfortunately, many schools simply advise pupils to choose subjects they enjoy, without really explaining the consequences of their choices for later applications.
There are people applying for RG unis with A levels in subjects which are not acceptable and for courses which require a certain A Level, who dont have that A Level. There are academic students who are taking BTecs because they were not advised that A Levels would open more doors for them.
Sometimes pupils are told to simply 'apply and see how you get on' even though they dont meet the requirements.
And it goes back to GCSE....knowing to choose separate sciences etc needs to be pointed out early on, for anyone serious about medicine.

Many schools lack knowledgable people about the tricky to get onto courses and careers advice services have been cut. Many schools have been driven by league tables and pushing pupils towards courses with 'easy' points, rather than those which best prepare them for the next stage they wish to go onto.

For pupils not in schools which give good advice, the info is out there...but it requires some inititiave to find it.

It's hard to imagine that students actually get to the stange of applying to medical schools without meeting their basic academic requirements but if the posts on The Student Room are anything to go on then it certainly does happen. .

Whilst it is true that universities could specify all As at GCSE and A level, but dont, it is important that hopeful candidates realise that many candidates WILL have all As and that unless they have a large amount of A*s at GCSE and are going to get As as a minimum at A Level, they dont really have a chance.
Yes, universities want to widen access, but I think it can be misleading to people to suggest that less than a stellar academic record will be acceptable.
Every year thousands apply who simply dont have enough As at GCSE, dont have high enough AS results, dont have high enough predictions, or even the right subject combinations. They have no hope of an offer. They apply because they have not been given clear enough advice about what is required.....their applications are binned. So yes, not everyone has ALL A grades, but it is important to realise how vital it is and that the uni cannot take you with a few passes at GCSE because you are from a sink council estate and failing comp.

Where the private school and good state school candidates benefit, apart from having the better grades,mis that they get the right advice from early on, so they choose the right GCSEs and A levels and are given advice about whether their academic profile gives them a realistic chance or not.

The OP is on the ball, and even if she doesnt know this stuff already, she can track it down if she is determined. And then as time passes, she will know if the academic profile of her son is suitable. She may also be able to get in contact with people at the unis who are keen to broaden access to people like him and who can advise and help him do what is necessary to get there.

If Uni's only wanted 'super' bright they would ask for higher entrance grades than they currently do. They have enough applicants to be able to choose but clearly realise that they get a better selection of applicants by not limiting themselves to students with a string of A*'s.

Universities are also actively trying to recruit students from all types of backgrounds and don't want to limit themselves to the 'perfect on paper' candidates ie the private school candidates Quite right too.

Good post Agggghast

I sometimes get the impression people are looking to find the 'secret ingredient' for being a succsessful medicine applicant where, in actual fact, it's quite straight forward. It's not easy but it's not complicated. The admission requirements and procedure are actually quite transparent for a lot of the Universities.

agggghast, while I can't disagree with this bit of what you say, "It is a vocation not a sensible choice." , I'd say that you don't need to be "super bright" to be a medical student or a doctor. You need to be able to think quickly and remember lots, but the most intelligent people don't necessarily make the best doctors!

I know this sounds smug but I think people over complicate this. Firstly unless your child will get A/A in all GCSE exams don't encourage them to apply they also need to be getting A/A in all A Levels and Chemistry is essential, Maths is probably next.

They need to be involved in their communities by choice, the aptitude tests will reveal whether they have the sociability factor needed to be an effective doctor. They also need to be interested in issues/ ethics. It is a vocation not a sensible choice. The work load is huge and unless you are super bright and dedicated it will not work.

Good luck to all, I wouldn't be able to do it myself.

Want2Be. When were you applying? Were you applying as a foriegn fee payer or with home fee status?

I applied and got into med school outside of the US. I didn't get into a UK school because of my grades (3 B's when my offer was ABB). What got me that offer instead of AAB or 3 A's was my experiences as a lifeguard. They asked me a few questions about it and I was able to turn their question into an opportunity where I could demonstrate maturity, an ability to communicate and deal with the public.

I wouldn't both with musical instruments etc. It will just detract from his studies. He needs straight A's and I would suck it up and pay for tutoring if he thinks he will need it.

Just popping my head up to say I am a current medical student and happy to give any advice info I can. I agree it changes rapidly.

It's late right now but feel free to pm me.

Good grades, good personality. Probably the two biggest musts. Without a personality he will not pass any interviews. That is often hardest for the straight from school students. So I would encourage anything that gives him confidence in situations, so drama, or speaking to strangers often.

Work experience is fine but can be in any form, some of my experience came from courses I went on etc. there are also weekend events for people thinking of medicine, I think it's called medlink, but might be wrong.

As I said feel free to pm me and I'll give you some info and some more specifics about particular unis if it helps without outing myself here .

Oh dear, another thread about medicine applicants with misleading information in amongst the good information

OP. Your son is doing everything right at the moment. I wouldn't worry anymore for a year or so. Then do you own research by looking at the information given out by the Medical Schools themselves, you should look at their admissions policies in particular.

The admission requirements for Medicine change year by year and information gets out of date VERY quickly.

Incidentally, I know three kids from my DDs school who got into medicine last year who only had three A levels (I think they did extended projects though). You would have thought that impossible if you believed everything on this thread.

One of my DCs is doing medicine (4th year) and he absolutely loves it. Its hard work but he is as enthusiastic now as he ever was. He could have choosen a less gruelling career with more pay but he's never doubted his decision.

Good A levels, science biology related

Or you can do an access course, get a degree in biomedical science which isn't as competative and then convert to a medical degree

It's the long way round but good for someone who didn't do well at A Level.

It doesn't HAVE to be all A at GCSE... but I agree at least 6 is important. Different university place varying amounts of weight to the GCSE grades. Cardiff for example, wants (or did when DD1 applied) 9 a/a minimum. And didn;t acknowledge Btecs.. which ruled DD1 out as she did a Btec Art!

However others didn't put so much store by GCSE, and place more emphasis on the UKCAT (all applicants have to do this for any med application) and on interview.

DD1 is at Peninsula (Exeter) which is decently high up the charts (if that matters!) and they have a problem based learning approach, which is fab for those who can study themselves and don't want a lecture based style. They have a a very good rep for turning out F1s (newly qualified doctors) who can actually do the job as they are thrown in with real patients from their first month at Uni!

DD1 chose Peninsula because she wanted to be by the sea and spent years 1+2 in Exeter, and 3+4 in Truro where she learned to surf:) Yr 5 will be in Plymouth and then... bloody hell this time next year my baby will be a real doctor.. doing her F1 somewhere!

I Do think however a long standing relative experience is good.. it shows committment. Medical school is TOUGH and staying power counts!

Maths A level is tough... Chemistry doubly so. But there is no doubt that med students really are the most able kids. I currently have two at University, both had stellar A levels, but when I'm around DD1's bunch of medics , they are a truly awesome bunch.. watching them go from 18 yr olds to (currently) 22/23 and how capable they are... is just WOW.