How do you justify seding your child to boarding school?

I think it is difficult for any process designed to target "'bright children' from poor economic and socially difficult backgrounds" to avoid being hijacked by those other than they were intended for, however.

It's a bit like grammar schools. In principle, if access to these could be purely on academic merit and potential then they could provide an education suitable for that very small minority of children who cannot be efficiently educated n comprehensives - in the same way as special schools educate those chldren who have particular difficulties in leaarning.

However, where highly selective schools exist, the very schools that could be used to give very bright children from poor backgrounds a very different educational experience have an 'opt in by aware parents' entrance procedure, for which there is a huge coaching industry and where private primaries pride themselves in 7 years of teaching to the test.

If superselective schools are to be 'income blind' and genuinely select on the basis of academic potential alone, then what is needed is a universal process through which all children, in all schools and from all families, are screened for academic potential using a test that cannot be tutored for and which does not depend on previous educational experience.

Smoke - the state used to offer assisted places for bright children from less well off and disadvantaged families, but the scheme was abolished virtually hours after Labour were elected in 1997.

Happy - I enjoy your articulate posts, and agree with what you say, but please could you do more paragraphs and put in a double space sometimes, because it is hard to read in solid blocks ;)

I do feel that the likes of Tiffin Girls/ Henrietta Barnet/ St Olaves/ Pates and Altrincham Girls Grammar would be able to educate a 'brilliant mathematician' to the correct level.

However, I do know how important the school surroundings / ethos and expectations are to exam results . This is the reason that although DD1 has 'comfortably' got on to the degree she has wanted to do since she was 15. I wonder would she have done better than AAB if educated at a grammar/private school.

I would like to say that I believe the state should offer 'bright children' from poor economic and socially difficult backgrounds, the chance of a boarding school education. This would give children who have potential but are 'constantly' held back by their circumstances of birth, a real chance to escape their 'birthright' ,it would also show them opportunities are out there for them.

HG Congratulations to your DS .

gauss as I haven't stated who did the report or what their area of expertise is you are not in a position to judge how correct my ed. Psych report is. I don't I tend yo divulge the name or how good their expertise is but I can assure you it's a very credible report no one has ever queried it's validity.
I'm delighted your DS is thriving on his school, non selective or selective, and he hope he does well in the math Olympiad. My DS is also thriving in his so we've all made the right decision for our individual children haven't we?
By the way I never said only Eton or Winchester I said I believe super selectives are the right places for the super bright (state or independent day or boarding). This us my view and my experience yours may be different.

The one thing this thread shows is that we all bring to the table our philosophies and experiences of life and education, these will all be different. Then add individual circumstances, financial, location, work, other DC's etc and we all make different decisions. We also look at other families how so they do things, would this work for me? We listen and read others opinions, do these strike a chord with what we believe or maybe it would be right for me on this occasion. Or because the last decision I made was not the right one perhaps I need to revisit my beliefs and make changes. No one decision is right for all, we do what we believe is the best for our families at the time. No one school be it state independent day or boarding is right for all. Sometimes in different circumstances we would have done things differently. If we'd stayed living in Richmond we might have sent our DS to SPS and then I could like many on here followed my instinctive gut reaction and been against boarding. But that not how my life panned, out I saw and experiences how things could be done differently at still work for some so I don't regret moving away.
I look at my DS and I like what I see I like the fact that he's turning into a renaissance man with many many interests, I like the fact that he's well adjusted and smiling (especially this morning now the IGCSE results are finally out), that he can show empathy to others, able to talk to people but hold his own and make friends and remain very close to his family. Children from many different schools will be then same we've just all got there in a different way. I fail to see what's wrong with that.

I don't think any ed psych is qualified to judge whether a child is a "maths genius", not being an expert in maths themselves.

(And, for the record, I have a child whose IQ scores are far rarer than 1 in 2000, who is grade skipped in a highly selective academic school, who is far beyond school maths and science and who has been approached to train for a maths olympiad team at a very young age. So I am hardly ignorant about highly intelligent children. But I just don't accept that Eton or Winchester are the only or best options available.)

My DS's Ed Psych report, by the way, makes a very similar claim about his maths ability, while also stating that it is uncertain that his speech / anxiety difficulties are resolvable. I haven't let either statement, made at the age of 6, rule his life - especially as the second turned out to be so totally untrue.

"In fact, given how focused many schools are with regard to league tables etc. I imagine many high performing schools would welcome such a child."

Well, no - not for that reason, anyway. As Word said above, for children of very high ability levels, the 'paper qualifications' on which league tables etc are based are relatively meaningless. A school will get the same credit for a child who gets an A in Maths at 16, or one who could have got it at 11 on entry to the school. So while they 'gain' in league tables for having children who can get A at 16, they don't gain any more from children any higher than this - so the 'exceptionally able' aren't any benefit in that sense.

Giood, flexible schools, like the one the 1 in 10,000 child I mentioned above attends, make specific arrangements in terms of out-of-year classes, individual teaching, bringing in outside experts, using videoconferencing type arrangements etc. But that isn't for league table reasons, it's to educate the child in front of them.

[A primary teacher who works for 40 years will teach around 1,200 children over the course of their career. So they may never meet a 1 in 10,000 child. Even a secondary maths teacher, who will teach a very much larger number iof individual pupils, may only come across 1 or 2 in their career. Special accommodation is likely to have to be made wherever the child is educated)

TBH HG I think genius should only be used for those whose contribution to whatever field deserves it. More than extremely high ability is needed for that to happen.
I also think that a DC with a similar talent to their family such as music or maths will be more likely to thrive from parental stimulation and knowledge independently of educational environment (ballet excepted as it needs such a prolonged physical training). The outlier has a harder time and that is when the right school or teacher can make such a difference.

I'm still not convinced that it's the best thing for exceptionally able children to be hived off to a school where there are only other exceptionally able children. But that's a different thread.

happygardening Its simple maths/stats I agree it is simple maths, simple as in it takes not account of the variables that would also affect the likelyhood of there being two "geniuses" at the same school e.g. population density in the local area.

happygardening What would you have done? As I've yet to find a high performing secondary school that would turn away a student because they are simply too bright to cater for them, I really couldn't say for sure. In fact, given how focused many schools are with regard to league tables etc. I imagine many high performing schools would welcome such a child.

mum it's not plain stupid to say that no other maths genius exists in your available state school it's statistical fact.
Most people IQ is with the a average range, its a bell curve, as is a child's height and weight chart, where most are around the 50 centile. So if you take 100 people the majority will be around the average then there will be a few extremes at either end, still within those 100, then there will be peoples IQ's which fall outside of that normal range they are outside of those 100 the further outside of that range you fall the less likely there is to be others like you. If you come back to the height and weight example in children most are average very few are on the 99 th centile for height, you might know a few who are 6 foot 6 but only very rarely is someone miles off the normal scale, the 7 foot adult is very unusual it's the same with IQ. Its simple maths/stats.

happygardening If statistically you are 1 in 2000 in you maths ability your likely to be the only one in a non selective school of 1500 and statistically, at that level of genius, you are likely to be the only one even in a super selective school unless the school specialises in only maths and the entrance exam only tests maths.

Mum Yes it did.
I only mentioned the Royal Ballet School because I used to live near it and regularly ride my horse past it and used to see the children, and an extraordinarily talented friend who was a ballet dancer was offered a place there at 11 I don't know that much about it frankly. I also had two friends when I was a teenagers at famous music schools (boarding) they were very happy there and loved the environment.
I'm not out I'm not outing myself by naming the schools, two comprehensives, one the counties top performing school, another (in the neighbouring county) with results comparable to many selective independent schools and a very well regarded local 6 th form college.
What would you have done? The fact that we even looked shows that we were both open to the idea, but that sort of comment puts me off. You might be interested to know that the 6 th form college had an identified group of high achieving pupils who were given extra help with personal statements, more access to extra curricular activities, special voluntary work programmes, interview techniques; lots of practice interviews going over likely questions, what answers the interviewers would want to hear, my DS didn't like this he felt that they were being over coached.
If statistically you are 1 in 2000 in you maths ability your likely to be the only one in a non selective school of 1500, Im quite good at math, (I think it's come from my maternal grand mother) my DH and DS1 have dyscalculia but from watching my DS it seems he just sees things differently to others, what is not very obvious to most others is blindingly obvious to him, I don't view this as necessarily a wonderful thing in the grand scheme of the thing because being like this is not always the route to happiness but it's still there.

Mum yes indeed.

Where there are state superselectives, the parents of very able DC queue in their droves for a place.

There really should be far more, to give some choice.

teacherwith2kids For some, the best option will be selective private, for others selective state, for others comprehensive state. It will depend on the individual as a whole, and the values of the family, which is 'the best' option for each individual. Money or lack thereof can also affect the choice of school for an exceptionally able child.

happygardening OK, I'm intrigued now. Did the ed.Psych report actually say "[child name] is a maths genius"?

I also know that on showing the report to three local high performing state schools - Which high performing state schools were these out of interest?

TBH, I'm not questioning whether your DS is a "math genuis". If he's happy with his school etc. then there's no question that you've made a good choice for him. However, to claim that no other "math genius" will exist in a standard comp. is just plain stupid. In fact, given that there are far more children in state schools (a large portion of which are comps) than there are in super selective boarding schools, it is highly likely that there are far more "math geniuses" in state schools than there are super selective boarding schools.

"Just as The Royal Ballet School is the place for the exceptional ballet dancer."

Not Tring, Hammond, Elmhurst? Or any of the schools that teach from 16+, usually taking students from non-vocational schools but from which some graduates go on to ballet companies (e.g. Northern Ballet, English National Ballet etc)?

I think the point I am making is that dance schools select at different points, acknowledgeing that a child who at 11 might not have been White Lodge material might well develop to be suitable for 16+ entry, even though that child would only have been at a daily 'after school' type non-vocational dance school for the intervening 5 years. [DD is the dancer in our family]

Equally, in academic subjects, I might say that the 'super-selective' type academic experience totally wrong for DS at 7 and definitely a second best at 11 might be absolutely perfect at 16+. Or it might be that he continues a 'non-selective' school environment until 18 but chooses a highly selective university. Or not.

Very able children, like all other children, are people. Not just their ability. We all, as parents, have to choose the best option for that 'person', not for 'that ability alone.

I don't think we should 'fetishise' a single school, or type of school, as being 'always the best option' for exceptionally able children. For some, the best option will be selective private, for others selective state, for others comprehensive state. It will depend on the individual as a whole, and the values of the family, which is 'the best' option for each individual. Information like the IMO tables [scary - didn't realise that iI knew half the team in 'my' year] show that very, very high attainment is possible from all school types.

peternas I've never once said Winchester is the only school for math geniuses I said that I believe super selective schools, any you care to name, are the best place for math geniuses or any other kind of academic genius. Just as The Royal Ballet School is the place for the exceptional ballet dancer.

It doesn't actually matter what any of you say I know my DS is a math genius because I it written in black and white in an extensive ed. Psych report, I know that he's doing well at math that he sufficiently stretched and challenged in math and other related areas at Winchester at that is what matters to me and him of course.
I also know that on showing the report to three local high performing state schools, one fairly recently, because frankly I have moments when Im tired of paying for education and so many on here repeatedly tell me how wonderful state ed is, we were told every time not to move by the teachers, one math teacher a few years ago sotto voce a few years ago advised me against it, and the last one only this year at a school where a minimum of an A at (I)GCSE was required for math and further math A2 said to him "frankly your going to be bored stiff here". Some may say this is rubbish but this has been my experience from primary and I'm afraid when I hear things like that I cease to become tired of paying.
He may not study math at university because he's growing into a renaissance man, he may not even go to university for all I can predict but a child who was being turned off math at one stage due to not be challenged, who was loosing his confidence in math and whose marks were going down is now enjoying it and doing exceptionally well and that is good enough for me.

"teacher I think paper qualifications for children at a certain level of ability are the least of it.

What we're all trying to do is find a way for our DC to thrive and be happy."

Absolutely! I just didn't want someone to leap on my post and start thinking that I as prioritising happiness over educational outcomes. For DS, the 'educational outcomes', in terms of 'entrance tickets to the next stage in his life' are vital - I wouldn't compromise those - but we are constantly evaluating the best 'process through which he reaches that point, in terms of him as a whole person'.

teacher I think paper qualifications for children at a certain level of ability are the least of it.

What we're all trying to do is find a way for our DC to thrive and be happy.

For me, that means super selective. For you, comprehensive.

We can only do what we think is right, with the resources at our disposal, and keep reassessing.