Year 7,8, do they need to use sewing machines?

Art and design is also an academic subject area. Just saying.....

I think textiles is really important and undervalued. useful for repairs etc. used to love supporting in secondary.

Rabbit your dcs may enjoy it. how do you repair clothing?

Rabbit you said

"Obviously it was vocational. The fact that you did the degree and now teach the subject is a bit of a give away."

I did a Maths degree and now teach Maths by your logic Maths is a vocational subject as well. But textiles is not the educational equivalent of Maths. Can you clarify this for me?

Can I clarify Rabbit please - were you saying STEM is code for preparing for jobs?

They don't do textiles at my DDs school but they do other tech subjects and they get far more timetable time than drama in KS3.

Boney - you're probably right to a certain extent none of us is without bias (although I don't think my bias is as blatant and ill based as the 'I teach it so it must be worthwhile' bias we've seen in this thread). However. Music is an academic discipline, musicology is a recognised academic research subject. A person who knows nothing about music cannot by any stretch of the imagination be described as either well educated or well rounded. A person who knows nothing about Kevlar? Can.

And arts ed has been decimated in recent years at the same time as subjects such as textiles have been presented as 'the thing to do' (but only for state school kids, of course....) If nobody challenges this reductionist utilitarian view then the arts will continue to decline and workplace focussed education will become the only game in town for those of us who don't send our kids to private schools. And I think that's wrong. Most people's views obviously differ, that's fine, I'm not going to start flinging around insults like 'talking out of your arse' or anything like that. I will continue to disagree with them, though.

But how can kids make informed decisions about which options to take if they haven't had some experience of the subject?

Many a child has opted for food tech gcse only to find that actual cooking is only a small part of the subject. If they'd done a bit in year 7 or 8 they'd realise that and be prepared.

And I think you'll find that in schools where textiles are offered they have far fewer timetabled hours than music and drama do, so hardly being prioritised.

It is entirely possible for schools to do both within the constraints of the timetable.

Rabbit

I find it amusing that you put music as having the "educational equivalent" of physics, maths and history.

You essentially say that others are biased toward textiles , the same can be said about you and music, drama and arts etc.

Well Rabbit, In my book, school is there to provide a rounded education. That indeed means a mix of academics, arts, physical and practical subjects. My dc's are in a top academic school in this country (with a sizable group of leavers heading for Oxbridge etc). I believe this school is so good particularly because of this mix. I am sure most academics will agree that being able to apply theory to practice is an important life skill.

Educating well rounded individuals serve the country well, yes, and so it should; we need to keep the wheels turning at all levels. However one would assume that a rounded education would serve most individuals well too (How well each school teaches each subject is a different discussion. Personally I have only had good experiences with regards to arts from both state and indie).

Sorry for digressing op - I think you can safely assume that any sewing will be done at school. However, if you have an old machine, it may just come in handy for practising threading the machine, mine did (dc going into yr9).

Now you're just being ridiculous. Also rude.

Yeah posh creative subjects.

I teach in an Ofsted outstanding highly academic school. All subject areas are highly valued, including drama and Art. Ofsted rated us on our outstanding rounded education for all students.

Just think Rabbit, the clothes you're wearing, the sofa you sit on, the bag you carry, the tent you go camping on, the baby bedding you used, were all designed by some lowly vocational type. How can you bear to use or wear these things? It must be so low brow for you

I'm not speaking out of my arse at all, I just disagree with you. And your assertion that something must be worthwhile because you teach it (which seems to be at the root of your 'argument') is clearly bobbins.

Titchy there is nothing remotely posh about music or drama. Or, there shouldn't be. Of course, current educational policy - prioritising the Gradgrind view that Subjects such as textiles are a higher priority than music and drama for state school kids - is changing that. In the future the arts may well be the preserve of the monied. But they don't need to be and they shouldn't be and one useful step to reversing that trend would be to recognise that subjects like textiles have no place in the core curriculum while music and drama do. If people want to study textiles (so that they can then teach textiles or go into industry) then fine, it should be there as an option. But not as a core subject.

Oh right posh creative subjects then are ok (I actually wholeheartedly agree re music and drama btw) but not 12 hours out of the entire of year 7 and 8 for textiles.

It is about the synthesis between science and creativity. That is the whole point of it. It is both STEM and creativity combined. Top class education should be holistic. This is a subject where this is embedded into the content.

I think you need to understand what you are actually talking about before you try and dismiss it. You have obviously no clue about it. Is about materials science and creativity, utilising maths to create an outcome. It is nothing about channelling people into vocational pathways. You have no experience of teaching the subject, so are speaking out of your arse basically

Titchy - not at all. You will have noticed that I suggested that better use of the time wasted on textiles, for some kids, would be music and drama. Arts ed is criminally neglected in this country. Often in favour of things like textiles which are there purely to channel people into work pathways. It's a narrow minded Gradgrind utilitarian view of education that drives me up the wall. I find it laughable that someone would claim textiles is a creative subject only a few posts after bigging up the STEM (which is often code for 'preparing for jobs') aspect of the actual course.

So Rabbitt, creativity isn't important then? Despite the fact that one of the UK's best exports are its creative industries? Despite the fact that the fashion industry is a massive employer?What twaddle you talk.

What about history teachers? Are they doing a vocational thing too? I have students who drop out of my A level course, because they can't cope with the Scientific side of it.

No, they only get paper HW.

However, DD1 says being able to thread a machine is very handy. Her class are a shower, they do not listen.

Consequently, they are forever asking her to thread the machine, and having got fed uo if this, she now inky agrees if they ket her jump the queue and do her bit first

They use sewing machines at my boys school, they don't need access to one at home but we have one at home and it's good they can have s go and use it if they wish, it's something they enjoy and are pleased when they make stuff.

Rabbit I think subjects like textiles are vital if you believe secondary schools are NOT there to provide a specific vocational education. Textiles, food tech, resistant materials etc should be taught to all so all kids so they can make informed decisions about gcse choices. Some kids shock horror might actually go on to work in such areas as a result if being introduced to them at school. I don't think two hours a week for half a term is too high a price for a broad education.

You seem to be advocating a narrow prescriptive purely academic education for all!

Why not get it serviced anyway? You never know it might start an interest in textiles.

Obviously it was vocational. The fact that you did the degree and now teach the subject is a bit of a give away.

If you believe that education is all about preparing people for identified jobs in the workplace then I expect you will think that textiles is a vital subject to force even the most unsuitable kids to waste time on at school. If you don't, then you won't. I have no problem with textiles being an option for those that like that sort of thing, I have huge problems with regarding it as the educational equivalent of physics, maths, music, history etc.

Stuff I cover in Textiles:

Smart and electronic textiles, including medical textiles
Environmental issues including pesticides and 3rd world labour
Geo textiles, carbon fibre and Kevlar
Marketing and promotion
Thermoplastic textiles

What a narrow minded view you have Rabbit. textiles is actually a STEM subject. I think my degree was education, it took 3 years, but of course, I may have been mistaken and it was vocational....... But somehow I don't think it was

Those that fancy doing it should have the chance to do it. Those that don't shouldn't have it forced upon them. It's not education it's vocational/workplace training. It doesn't belong in schools.