JCQ and ofqual gcse grade warnings...

LIZS - I can assure you that I am not remotely out of touch - I coach dozens of UCAS candidates every year and am in touch with university admissions people who are not as dim as people on this thread seem to think!

TalkinPeace
"They are the kids who discovered that practical subjects like textiles and resistant materials were 30% exam based after they had picked their options."

its 40% and has been for years.

If I can offer any comfort my Dd was in the first cohort to find themselves with inconsistently deflated GCSE results. It came as a surprise and many walked out of local schools in tears on results day, having not got the grades predicted / needed to get into sixth forms. A number of my DDs cohort at school predicted an A in English got a B (their English results were deflated by 40%). Most private sixth forms require an A to do the A level. Within 24 hours it had become clear what had happened and sixth forms were relaxing their requirements. It was also thought any hope of studying English at a good university was ended with less than A.

At AS level in spite of terrible panic attacks my DD cleared 4As with a very high mark in English, she applied to study English in combined honours for 5 universities, 4 in the top 10 in the league tables for English and got 5 offers, something that would not have happened without a string of A*s in previous years. The unis clearly knew exactly what had happened and disregarded that B, and the same was true of other pupils who had similarly had disappointing results.

I don't know how the unis are going to respond to not having the additional evidence from AS but what they want is the brightest applicants who will succeed on the courses and the credibility of GCSE results as a predictor of that has been undermined.

I really feel for any pupils who are a victim of all this meddling, but the unis do not live in a vacuum.

Bottlecap firstly, you maintained that it was untrue to say a bright pupil with average scores which would still represent a significant disability would not get extra time. It is true isn't it? And it translates into a lot of pupils who have lost their extra time or will not get it, who will as OFQUAL concedes have the playing fields tipped against them. And all I suspect because some policy bod thought it would sound bad to Daily Mail readers if those getting extra time had scores that could be termed "average", restricting it to "below average" is a nice simple message, no need to complicate it with the complexity of reality of how different pupils with different issues and levels of ability are affected

Secondly I can only pass on the advice of an Ed Psych, Dyslexia charity and school exam officer that without those below average working memory and processing scores extensive evidence has to be submitted for special consideration and they are finding the chances of success uncertain.

I think the difficulty is that most employers, colleges, unis, know that changes are afoot for the cohort sitting in 2015. But most people believe that the 2014 cohort have sat modular exams, like the previous cohort, when in fact they've sat some horrible neither arthur nor martha hybrid!

Bonsoir, sorry but think you may be a little out of touch with the UK system. Unis are using GCSE results as a benchmark for future success. College and uni offers are competitive with candidates pitted against each other regardless of which cohort they fall into. It may determine whether they even get an interview let alone a conditional place. The fact that this year's B may have been last year's A is irrelevant and not something taken into consideration, it is the grades themselves which determine qualification for courses. For those on the borderline it is the difference between a pass or fail.

This cohort also includes kids who would have been preparing to sit maths and English in November with a chance at another bite of the cherry in June, but had the rug pulled from under them a couple of weeks before their actual GCSE exam and suddenly been told they had to sit it in June for the first time instead. How unsettling.

No way would an individual employer know how each student has been affected by all the pissing around.

DD's teachers have been gently warning the kids about this year being a bit of an unknown, transitional year, and the number of revision sessions put on by the school, even on weekends, in the build-up to the exams, were evidence of some concerns by the Headteachers. We cant help but worry for our own DC, as although in the greater scheme of things these results will matter less as they get older, it is their one and only shot at year 11. Yes they can resit Maths and English, but if that detracts from their next phase of study, then it will continue to affect them.

I just dont want my DD to feel like she could have done better, when I know how hard she worked for so long, and the more media coverage there is in the build-up to the 21st, the more our DC will feel that they cannot win and are just caught up in the politics of education.

This years exam takers include the kids whose English controlled assessments were torn up AFTER hours and hours of work was put into them.

They are the kids who picked their options in year 9 based on the courses being roughly modular, but then were told that the testing of all the modules would be at the end of the two years.

They are the kids who discovered that practical subjects like textiles and resistant materials were 30% exam based after they had picked their options.

They are the kids whose grades are going to be deflated to fit political whims so questions will be asked by employers why they are so much thicker than the cohort of 2011.

Gove is gone but the damage he wrought on the English system will persist for years.

Anybody who thinks that it will not affect their life chances REALLY needs to get out more.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't buying Bonsoir's repositioning herself as Queen of Chill Out when it comes to education ...

She just doesn't give a shit because she hasn't got skin in the game. And can't summon enough empathy for kids she doesn't know...

Bonsoir - when it is your child who has worked incredibly hard - and I saw mine do this - who's future is effectively a political football then I think you will be saying less about stressing.

But as has been pointed out to you Bonsoir the 2014 cohort aren't at the vanguard of change.

They are the cohort who are stuck in the middle. And I suspect many of them will be affected.

I don't have any DC in this cohort, so I don't speak from personal concern. But I still feel for all those kids.

People have got to stop stressing. Exam systems change - lots of people have been through the first year of this system or the last year of that. Much more difficult changes have taken place eg in Canada and Germany when the school leaving age was lowered from 19 to 18. People still got an education!

In an ideal world Bonsoir yes.

But for the 2014 cohort, if they don't get the baseline GCSE grade, all the skills in the world aint gonna get them the place they want in college in September.

Or do you think the colleges will simply take an applican't word for it? Nice thought, though that is ..

No I'm not talking about foreign children.

It's crucial for parents and pupils to stop thinking of GCSEs as some kind of branding exercise and to understand the education and skills (or lack thereof...) underlying A* GCSE Maths (or whatever).

If your dd's speed of writing is assessed at being the 10th percentile that converts to a standardised score of 81, which would meet the current criteria for extra time alongside evidence of need/usual way of working provided by school.

Bottlecat that was a bit disingenuous? The Jcq regs www.jcq.org.uk/Download/exams-office/access-arrangements-and-special-consideration/regulations-and-guidance/access-arrangements-and-reasonable-adjustments-2014-2015 Chapter 5 section 5.2.2 read "at least one below average standardised score of 84 or less." In exceptional circumstances two low average scores 85 to 89 may be considered and in "very rare and exceptional circumstances" a pupil who has no scores at 89 or less but with considerable evidence of a long term disability and it's impact.

In practise both school and the Dyslexia charity who advised us said that my DDs speed of writing at the tenth percentile ie 90% of the population would write more quickly, would be unlikely to get her extra time even with a very long term evidence of need going back to intervention at age 6 and formal diagnosis in year 4. There is a system that the exam officer submits the scores to as part of the process of applying for special arrangements, in the case of dyslexia if the working memory and processing scores are not in the below average range then a special case has to be made with an uncertain (I think the wording of the regs on that are fairly clearly discouraging) chance of success.

Why else would Ofqual be acknowledging when meeting the dyslexia charities, independent schools representative bodies and other interested bodies that their representations that the new regs were discriminatory against bright pupils were founded, basically they were collateral damage, and as rabbit highlighted, shouldn't be given A*s. <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.ofqual.gov.uk/how-we-regulate/90-articles/864-extra-time-in-qualification-examinations-and-assessments-for-learners-with-dyslexia-or-other-specific-learning-difficulties" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.ofqual.gov.uk/how-we-regulate/90-articles/864-extra-time-in-qualification-examinations-and-assessments-for-learners-with-dyslexia-or-other-specific-learning-difficulties

Elephants I think bright students headed towards the most competitive universities/courses may well be affected.

Many admissions tutors are well used to seeing reams of applications from students with sterling GCSEs.

I tink we may see some of the 2014 cohort priced out of that market so to speak, by their GCSEs.

Alternatively, we might see the increase of A* offers at A level as universities increasingly ignore GCSEs.

Yes, it's not bright DCs going for university places and the main graduate recruiters who will be affected. Those organizations will know how the exam system works.

It's pupils trying to get into over subscribed collage courses and apprentiships. The poor sods who are automatically rejected for not having a C in English.

Yes, collages may try their best for students disadvantaged by the marking problems a year or two back and S&L this year, but they are massively oversubscribed and underfunded. Decent resit frame works are not in.place, students are going to fail to get the courses they deserve.

Bonsoir I assuem you're talking about foreign children.

The reality is that for the vast majority of DC in the UK system, they are judged by their GCSEs.

So any young person who wants to access a course at college will have to have a C in English and Maths. A D will not cut it. And the college won't be in a position to change their policy and say 'oh well the 2014 cohort were in a difficult siuation, this year we'll change things.'

Similarly, to access the course at the university where I teach you will need an A* in that subject at GCSE. An A will not cut it. And I very much doubt my collegaues will change their policy for the 2014 cohort.

Yes, other applicants from other education systems won't need the GCSEs. But the vast majority of applicants are home grown so that really is of little interest to them...

I know loads of young people with no GCSEs. It's not going to be an issue!
Yeah right.
Sorry but employers use algorithms to sort applications.
If you cannot tick the box you will not get on the list.
THAT is why they are forcing retakes of maths and English through till 18

Kids without GCSEs will be condemned to NMW Zero hour work because there will be others who fit the mould better

Sorry beg to disagree, 5 x A*-C is a benchmark being regularly applied in the FE/employment market in UK. There are equivalents (BTECS etc) and access courses etc but the govt has changed it so everyone is expected to gain L1/GCSE/L2 in English and Maths and must continue to study towards it, even alongside NVQs and apprenticeships. It is going to be very tough in future for those without this to progress.

LIZS - I have two O-levels (in English Language and French). No A-levels.

I have a first class degree from a good English university, an MBA from a world-ranking business school and worked for some extremely fussy employers. I know loads of young people with no GCSEs. It's not going to be an issue!

Yes of course. Given that anyone undertaking any form of recruitment uses multiple variables anyway. Recruiters are not as dim as all that!

Universities and employers recruit candidates with no GCSEs at all, all the time. Not any more they don't. While a first application in the next year or so might have some leeway , assuming the variation is recognised , in a few years' time employers will be comparing the results of candidates across many cohorts with no thought that "oh 2014 was different let's give them the benefit of the doubt!".

So you're saying that employers will be able to distinguish between GCSEs sat in different years and that students shouldn't be pissed off that they will have lower results compared to students from previous years despite being of equal ability and will have to preface any conversation about these results with "of course I sat them in 2014 which makes a difference"? It's all fine really?