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Faith schools (again...)

34 replies

fourcorneredcircle · 23/07/2014 09:30

Oratory School

So, If you follow this board you've probably noticed I'm a teacher and in the interests of not being caused of of pushing an agenda I will say now that while I'm not vehemently against any schools (except probably free schools) I have always been uncomfortable with the way that Faith schools define religious observance and the effect this has on families who observe but can't fit arbitrary rules on quantity or quality of observance.

I have always said that the 'rules' often benefited white middle class parents above all other groups - I'm glad that such a well known school has been caught out for this.

Am I being overly optimistic to hope that this might be the kick up the backside up faith selective education needs?!

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fourcorneredcircle · 23/07/2014 16:18

I suppose I just don't feel they (nor any other organisation) should have exemptions.

The oratory school was using criteria such as flower arranging for the church (although choir singing isn't mentioned) as a way of demonstrating spiritual suitability - which is why they've had their wrists slapped. I know it's supposed to be based on regular attendance.

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prh47bridge · 23/07/2014 16:14

Faith schools and religious organisations have specific exemptions from parts of the Equality Act (as do various other bodies).

No, you can't get priority for a school by singing in a choir, etc. However, faith schools are allowed to prioritise on faith grounds. This is usually based on regular attendance at worship.

fourcorneredcircle · 23/07/2014 16:08

I think the publicity around this judgement is all part of a general wake-up call on faith school admissions, and their impact on socio-economic and racial segregation.

we can hope anyway... thanks for directing me to the other board. Interesting reading.

I take chillysundays' comments on board that faith schools can indeed be in deprived areas and that they do perhaps represent the local community but I'm afraid I cannot agree with you rocketjam that the things you list as being the best way to decide a child's educational future. Flower arranging may well be petty but it's still there plain as day - is it ok to let one child in over another because one of their parents has time to arrange flowers? Really? If by work in the community you mean the food bank, night shelter, visits to the elderly, etc. why is that not admissible for a non faith child?

I just don't feel that in the twenty-first century you should be able to buy your way in to a certain education by following one religion over another or by presenting yourself as the most worthy follower above a list of other supposedly equally believing candidates by virtue of singing in a choir, flower arranging or helping at a food bank.

If I owned a shop which said it was only for one religion and that to prove it you had to jump to arbitrary hoops I'd be breaking the law, wouldn't I?!

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icecreamsoup · 23/07/2014 12:24

Prh is right that most faith school admissions policies aren't as extreme as the Oratory's (which is based on strict compliance with Canon Law), but I think the publicity around this judgement is all part of a general wake-up call on faith school admissions, and their impact on socio-economic and racial segregation.

The issues have been discussed at length in this other thread.

prh47bridge · 23/07/2014 11:26

This ruling will not affect the vast majority of faith schools that simply require regular attendance at worship. The London Oratory has been prevented from using factors such as singing in the choir, altar serving, flower arranging, visiting the sick, etc. as part of their admission criteria. Very few faith schools have ever used such criteria.

rocketjam · 23/07/2014 11:01

It's difficult not to agree with you. However, as a Christian and a Church member, I know that most families who come to church regularly will be involved in activities to do with the church, its upkeep, social activities, help in the community (food bank, night shelter, visits to the elderly, etc) and yes, I know it's taboo nowadays, but will give money to the church. Our church is linked to a primary school and some families just come to church once a month and to hope and get their child in the school, and do not participate in church life at all. But the school is so oversubscribed (over 150 applicants for 30 places) that only families who come more often will get in (except looked after children). Then it's in order of catchment.

And yes, the church is working very hard to have many services, one on Saturday evening, two on Sunday morning, most with nursery church and Sunday school, and twice during weekdays, to try and accommodate working parents, those working shifts etc.

And yes it is mostly middle class, but our local area is middle class.

And no, it's not overwhelmingly white, I think it's 26% either mixed race or of other ethnic groups. Most have English as a first language but that's also representative of our local community.

I think that the article is superficial, and doesn't give enough details. THe example of flower arranging is petty. They could have mentioned any other work in the community.

ChillySundays · 23/07/2014 10:33

My local faith school is in a deprived area and there are large number of working class immigrant family.

Toomanyhouseguests · 23/07/2014 10:29

Agree completely.

fourcorneredcircle · 23/07/2014 09:31

*accused

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