Is this detention (Year 7) unreasonable?

He went back on the 10th, he should have returned it then. Surely he had friends that had visited him and could take it?!

Dd had a similar unfair detention recently. She was on a residential school trip for a week. While away the cookery teacher gave the kids who were still at school (99% of the cookery class) an ingredients list for the week dd returned.

So dd and the other girl from cookery on the trip didnt know and didnt take the ingredients. They got a detention.

Dd is furious. I told her she either sucks it up and does it or she sees her form tutor. Part of me thinks she could have asked her form if she needed ingredients.....but they don't actually cook every week so I don't think it crossed her mind.

I agree secondary school kids need to sort it out themselves. I'll support her by suggesting what she can do to sort it.

I find it odd that neither you nor your son sought clarification, but that he just did the detention.
The school,probably has a set approach to detentions, but are very likely to understand that he was off sick and respond to his individual circumstances. However, they can only do that, if you point out what they are. You could have done it or your son could have done it. To not do it seems to have done no one any favours here. I'm sure the school would have shown understanding about his circumstances. Tbh I really wouldn't complain now....the situation needed pointing out before he did the detention.
I agree that there are times when it is best not to get involved, and there are times when punishments are derived and children have to take them. This however does not seem to be one of them and your son needs to learn that there are also times when someone needs to speak up,to point out information that the person in power, may not be aware of. They are not aware of extenuating circumstances and cannot be blamed for giving a detention if they are not told of them. It isn't always good to go for a quiet life and remain silent. Knowing when to speak up and when to stay quiet is important and I think your son needs to learn this, and you need to show him the difference between the 2.
As you say,nit is over and done with now. He is left feeling a bit cross about it and I expect you are too.....these feelings could have been avoided with a simple email or conversation. I expect the librarian would be upset of think the boy did a detention he didn't deserve...but she will never know.

I must say I think you're being remarkably good-natured about it. I'd be cross, and would be asking for clarification, as it's totally unreasonable to punish a child (technically) for having been ill.

(And I never complain to school!!!!)

I would maybe contact the school separately now he has done his detention to see if they could 'clarify' the situation regarding library books when the pupil that has taken them out is absent from school due to unexpected major surgery (well, compared to having a verucca cut out or some of the other medical things that people might use as a medical excuse). And then clarify why exactly your son got penalised again for forgetting it on his second day back - when others have had books out for much longer.

Did he have any reminder in school either day about his book and the need to bring it back? Is it because it is end of term so they get strict to ensure all books get brought back and not lost over the holidays?

I can see why your son is annoyed - he did his first detention and half of the second one (if they were supposed to be 20 mins) and the librarian has excused him on grounds of him doing the detention well, rather than acknowledge they were unreasonable to expect him to bring a book in when he is at home recuperating from surgery.

I'd also potentially be quite annoyed at the actual detention, depending on my child's health. How well healed is your son -is he ok lifting and carrying heavy things - did he need to move or lift books in order to clean the shelves? and assuming that he is cleaning the shelves because they are dusty/dirty, dust sets off asthma attacks in ds1. So I'd be furious if he'd been randomly given a task like this to do without them checking if it had any consequences. And at 11, I don't think it is up to the child to have to say this, particularly to a teacher at the start of a detention. Some teachers are OK but there are others that are grumpy and unreasonable at the best of times; get one of those and they might just assume that the child is trying to get out of detention and the child might end up with another detention. Particularly if the child isn't particularly confident - which many aren't at that age.

It sounds like they needed help cleaning the library so figured it would be an easy source of labour to do it and I'm not entirely against that. But given that dust can cause asthma and that not all kids are able to do all physical activities (temporarily like the dc here potentially or permanently like those kids with EDS or other conditions that could be affected) it should be the teacher that checks. If they checked these things with the child beforehand then that's one thing, if they didn't and expected the child to get on with it with no way of them getting the detention activity changed to one that didn't physically cause problems for them, then I would have a massive problem with it.

of course I have no way of knowing OP what was the case in your circumstances!

That's a shame. Does the librarian know your son didn't return it because he was having his appendix out? It all sounds a bit inconsistent.

I agree it is completely unfair, however I would encourage your son to explain the reasons for the late return himself to the teacher. My dd (year 7) would rather do the detention than have me send an email over such a minor issue.

I agree that he needs to sort it out for himself, it is part of growing up. You can coach and support him in what to say but I think emailing on his behalf is going OTT.

But I think it doesn't need to be seen as "challenging authority". As Chocolate Wombat said he needs to think of it as presenting the facts and 'querying' the detention, not disputing it - it's all in the approach, and these are great skills for 11 and 12 yr olds to be learning.

An 11 year old does not necessarily have the confidence or the skills the challenge authority in an effective manner.

Of course its fine to sort it out on his behalf.

I agree year 7s should be encouraged to do things for themselves. However sometimes they still need support and help from their parents.

He is in Y7 and needs to sort this out for himself - it is secondary school, he needs to speak to his tutor and the library, make them aware and argue his own case for compassion.

Part of growing up is not getting mummy to do it for them.

Detentions are probably issued automatically so yes, just email the school explaining that your DS couldn't return the book as he was absent and that now it has been returned can you consider the matter dealt with?

If they come back and say they still want him to do the second detention then fair enough, but it sounds like the harshest school library ever. Most are just grateful to get books back before the summer.

I would explain to my ds that he needs to go along politely to (the Librarian? The HoY?) and explain that they understand there is probably an automatic system in place for 'Book late = detention' but that, as he was taken into hospital for surgery, then he's sure they'll understand that was outside of his control, but, despite that he realises he should have brought it in with him on the Thursday and forgot then, so understands he has to do the 2nd one.

I would send an email querying the detention, not disputing it....there is a subtle difference. I think that it is always good to explain the background circumstances and ask if the detentions are required, given the circumstances, rather than to begin by saying it is unreasonable. You will sound less critical,but more enquiring. It gives school a chance to simply say it does not apply in these circumstances, rather than having to say they were in the wrong. Chances are, the detentions have been applied without knowledge of the background.
So personally,mI wouldn't view the situation as unreasonable, but simply an error. I think if you feel like this yourself about it, it will be less annoying and personal too. All big organisations make errors like this. They can easily be corrected without anyone needing to make a big scene.

I am a secondary school teacher and I agree this seems very unfair. When I was at school myself I only ever had one detention in Y7 for "messy handwriting" (the content of the work was all correct) and I thought this was really unfair, but served the detention and still moan about it (as you can see) years on. I could have asked my parents to complain, but decided I should just do the detention.

Why not talk to your son and see what he wants you to do?Talk to him about how you think it is unfair as his situation wasn't taken into account, but whoever set it was obviously sticking to "school policy".

I'm sure a quick email detailing your son's illness to the Head should do the trick.

I would speak to them about it.

I don't understand either of these detentions. If the first is indeed purely for not returning a book when he was in hospital it is unreasonable. If he was at home recuperating it is a little more understandable but still, in my view, unreasonable. As others have said, detention for a late library book seems odd. So I would want to know if it is really just for the reason you have stated or if there is something else involved. And, unless the school has a good explanation, I would be asking them to reconsider.

Normally, I veer towards the "suck it up" school of thought, but this is totally unreasonable. I would be contacting the school.

Not sure I understand what the second detention is for either.

I think maybe you need to explain it was emergency surgery with no notice, not a scheduled event he could have anticipated.

Definitely unfair.

Good grief- every single library book my dd has ever returned has been late!

School just like the fact she reads. Send in a note saying that he will not be attending the detention due to his illness.