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Advice wanted on wording this letter

380 replies

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 19:36

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OP posts:
proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 18:35

Thanks for answering my question even those of you who think its ridiculous.

Why do you have to ask? I think everyone you are arguing with has been quite clear in saying that the right thing to do is to observe religion-based requests regarding dress code as a guest in a place of religious observance.

No, no brdgrl. Everyone has not been clear if they would go to the extreme of wearing a veil up until this point. It's such an interesting viewpoint. I can't relate to it at all Hmm

bye for now

brdgrl · 10/07/2014 16:47

proudmama, I don't mind answering your ridiculous question, as the answer is so blindingly obvious.
If the Church of England changed its customs and rules entirely and began to require women to wear veils, and decided that visitors to St Paul's would be asked to wear veils, then yes, I would wear a veil.
Why do you have to ask? I think everyone you are arguing with has been quite clear in saying that the right thing to do is to observe religion-based requests regarding dress code as a guest in a place of religious observance.

happygardening · 10/07/2014 16:01

Not ignoring your question proud just done a marathon bit of driving. "What is the mosque wanted them to wear veils?" I take it were talking here about a mosque asking it's female visitors to wear veils when they visit because this is what other women do? Do you know what I agree with a comment made by someone up thread, "their gaff their rules" so what if you wear a veil for a few hours, ditto veils and wimples, the world isn't going to come to an end it, you may believe that this is a sign of female oppression but I doubt a bunch of 12-13 yr old visiting for a few hours donning a mask out of courtesy to their visitors will feel overly oppressed. It would be an interesting experience they can they then comment on it from personal experience. I would like to hope the mosque would explain why they want women to do this, are open to questions and even an informed debate.
We have to respect others people beliefs and customs in a civilised society.

Molio · 10/07/2014 14:35

proudmama you're doing what OP has done - reducing or inflating the argument to the ridiculous. happygardening has distilled the issue to the very mild reality of what it actually is - good manners and respect. OP has clearly done the militant feminist thing of making it into a gender attack, which it isn't, and even if there were gender issues, which there aren't. one doesn't have to suspend one's own principles to stick on a scarf in order to take a few hours out to learn about a different culture. It's also incredibly arrogant to assume that our western way of living is superior and best.

TalkinPeace · 10/07/2014 14:11

Aliens in veils. Excellent

FidelineAndBombazine · 10/07/2014 13:44

I'll put it in my 'bizarre hypotheticals that need a theoretical policy when I have time' file. Along with the alien abduction scenario.

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 13:42

ok FidelineAndBombazine

It will forever remain a mystery what your choice would be. I can live with that.

FidelineAndBombazine · 10/07/2014 13:39

Proud I didn't answer your silly hypothetical veil question (whetever a 'veil' is anyway).

You're talking to yourself.

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 13:28

I’m like you in that respect. I would definitely not wear a veil to show religious tolerance and respect. Although much more extreme than a headscarf for similar reasons.

I have choice, but there are so many women who do not - even women who live in the UK.

Like SOME women I might choose to wear a veil - but not out of respect and religious tolerance - out of fear..

-of being ostracized by my family and people of my cultural background.
-of being labelled immoral
-some men may feel they can sexually assault me without recrimination because I have dressed in a provocative way
-I live in a Taliban occupied village and I could be publicly flogged if I do not.
-family honor killings

These women don’t have a choice. I do and if I choose to engage in the practice of wearing a head scarf - I’m saying I respect it - and I do not respect the custom.

TalkinPeace · 10/07/2014 13:23

They will be checking the willies of male tourists visiting mosques and synagogues at this rate Grin

FidelineAndBombazine · 10/07/2014 13:17

Why the obsession with veils proud?

Veils are entirely irrelevant to the issue in hand.

FidelineAndBombazine · 10/07/2014 13:16

Ok to make the argument less ridiculous just a veil.

I was just laughing at this

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 13:07

Oh sorry I see you say Nope - you wouldn't wear a veil?

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 13:05

even so, would you wear a veil out of respect and religious tolerance.

FidelineAndBombazine - it's a simple yes or no

FidelineAndBombazine · 10/07/2014 13:02

Nope. Still just as ridiculous.

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 12:57

Silence ensues.

Ok to make the argument less ridiculous just a veil.

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 12:48

Ok I agree - it is not likely to happen. But still what if it did. What St. Pauls wanted women to wear habits and wimpoles?

Would you do it out of respect and religious tolerance?

TalkinPeace · 10/07/2014 12:45

proudmama
because, as per the link to the Mosques from the TES thread,
its not going to happen in the UK, or Europe, or most of the world
apart from those countries where Women are not allowed to walk around on their own anyway.

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 12:41

why is it bizarre?

FidelineAndBombazine · 10/07/2014 12:28

happygardening- what if the mosque wanted girls to wear a veil.?

Well that is a bizarre hypothetical question proud.

Analagous to "What if St Pauls Cathedral start insisting all female visitors wear habits and wimples?"

proudmama2772 · 10/07/2014 12:09

happygardening- what if the mosque wanted girls to wear a veil.

There are some scenarios I convince myself wearing a veil is the right thing to do.

happygardening · 10/07/2014 09:57

"I think I could try to find a mosque that don't have head scarfs required"
Will you then write to the school suggesting they change their plans and go to this one instead or will you take your DD on your own (assuming they'd let you)? If your hoping the school might change it's plans what about parents who would like their DC's to experience a more traditional mosque or those who you'd think rather weirdly Im sure can't get themselves particularly worked up about being asked to cover their heads out of respect to the people who kindly invited them.
I just find it bizarre that you feel so strongly about this issue. It's a trip out with the school for a few hours to a place of worship and the children are simple being asked to be courteous and respectful to the people who worship there. Don't we as parents all want our children to grow up to be courteous and respectful of others especially especially when under their roof at their invitation. Courteous and respectful by the way is not a secret code for agreeing with everything others say or being forced to adopt practices for the rest of our lives that we don't believe in). It's not a war crime she's being asked to be part of.

BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 23:25

Don't you just hate the word 'ditsy' though? It sounds like an attention seeking bird brain who hasn't got a clue.

TalkinPeace · 09/07/2014 23:24

I think I could try to find a mosque that doesn't have headscarves required
ROTFLMAOPMPL
you are so narrow minded that you cannot see beyond a piece of clothing
and do not realise that your obsession with pettiness over your DD will be teaching your son that women are a different species.

Let her go.
Let her make her own mind up. Stop trying to brainwash her.

HumpsForHalfMile · 09/07/2014 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.