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Advice wanted on wording this letter

380 replies

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 19:36

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OP posts:
happygardening · 08/07/2014 23:16

I don't know because I don't know anything about Muslims Sikhs or whatever region we're talking about. But as far as Im aware neither are keeping their beliefs a "filthy secret"
Maybe when your daughter is in this religious institution presumably with her head covered she will learn why they believe in this, she may not agree with them just as I don't agree that cows are Gods but she will know why and hopefully respect them and maybe realise it doesn't do any harm to anyone and they are not saying all should cover their heads just that in their religion you cover you heads.
As I said Im a dyed in the wool atheist it's not akin to eating you babies where I come from, I am forthright about what I believe but I also try to be understanding respectful and tolerant of those with different beliefs because this is what I hope people will be of mine.
I hope and if I was religious would pray above all for a tolerant respectful caring society where people are free to believe what they like as long as it doesn't harm others.

proudmama2772 · 08/07/2014 23:14

Hi montrealmum

chiming in again as you're not getting much support - and I can't believe itShock. I've been called a bigot for stating I don't agree with encouraging young girls to wear a head scarf if they don't agree with the practice in principle. If a Muslim institution was offended by me not wearing a head scarf I wouldn't go. If the idea is to teach religious tolerance maybe take the girls to a Muslim institution that won't be offended if they choose to loose the head scarf.

I would never encourage my daughter to as well. I think its a sexist practice. I think a lot of the posters attacking you are really simple minded and have some really weak arguments.

TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 23:11

Montreal Chill.
The more of an issue you make of it for your DD, the more she will wonder if there is something in it.
Most intelligent people grow out of religion. Give her that chance.

The USA is still very immature on that one - in part because religion is NOT studied in mainstream schools so parents' views are NOT diluted.

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:10

Brilliantly said. If you invited your Buddhist friends for dinner, would you put steak on the menu?
I rest my case.

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montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:04

Happy gardening, Can't understand why that seems inappropriate! Surely your religious beliefs aren't a filthy secret! Coming from North America myself I think it's important to be forthright and honest about what you believe. Where I come from, being an atheist is akin to telling people you eat babies as a hobby.

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happygardening · 08/07/2014 23:03

I don't know why your daughter is expected to cover her hair but their religion says it is, she is I'm assuming in their place of worship therefore you and she should respect their beliefs. I just don't see why you've got a problem with this.
My Hindu/Buddhist friends don't eat beef/meat. I definitely don't agree with their views, I'm very fond of cows but I don't believe that they are Gods, and as a fully paid up member of the hunting, shooting, fishing brigade I don't agree with my Buddhist friend but I respect their views what harm is it doing me? When they invite me for dinner I don't demand steak and kidney pie.
It's all about being tolerant of different views and outlooks in life.

purpleroses · 08/07/2014 22:59

But she in the year above where she should be?

Year 8 are mostly aged 13 which is a bit different from (largely prepubescent) 11 year olds.

TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 22:56

montreal
If they were going on an outing that said 'stout footwear and long trousers' would you object?
If they were going on an outing that said sun-hats compulsory, would you object?

Religion is a PITA, but the best way to get kids to realise that is to let them experience it and work it out for themselves, not have you force your prejudices onto them.

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 22:55

She is currently 11, due to turn twelve on August 29. Not what difference that makes.

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happygardening · 08/07/2014 22:55

Maybe the teacher isn't sure if they're required but strongly suspects they are and feels it would be inappropriate to enquired especially as it won't do any of the children any harm to cover their heads. We have some Hindu friends I don't ring them and ask if they can eat spaghetti bolognese it would just seem inappropriate somehow, ditto a Buddhist friend I wouldn't ring and say "is it ok if we have lamb chops for dinner when you come tomorrow" because it might put him in an awkward position. There are times when compliance with friends beliefs is just the easiest and most decent thing to do. Not questioning if on this occasion could they but there beliefs to one side. What harm does it do?

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 22:53

Please can I make obvious to posters who seem to think I propose sending her in a bikini. ..she would be otherwise wearing SCHOOL UNIFORM.

OP posts:
purpleroses · 08/07/2014 22:53

How is she in Y8 of she's 11?
Year 8 are 13, or nearly 13

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 22:50

Happy gardening,
Why does my eleven - year old daughter's hair offend them? She is a school girl in school uniform and is no more offensive than a eleven year old girl in school uniform and a headscarf. End of. Don't try to PC me into thinking that my choice for my daughter not to wear a headscarf is in any way different from another mother's choice that her daughter should wear one.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 22:49

The child is going on an outing where it is appropriate to wear certain clothes.
The same applies to a day in the woods or at the beach.

purpleroses · 08/07/2014 22:47

Of the teacher isn't sure that it's actually required by the place they're going then I think you should contact the place directly and ask if they require headscarfs on 13 year olds.

Of they don't then I do think you should take it up with the school. But not otherwise.

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 22:43

Thanks for the first constructive feedback thus far. I did ask the teacher in charge if she had actually done this, but the response was that it was decided that a blanket policy of wearing headscarves and trousers was easier to avoid all doubt. So it comes from school primarily.

OP posts:
happygardening · 08/07/2014 22:41

No your daughter is not on a trip to Rome but she's on a trip to a religious institution where she been kindly and generously invited and where people who cover their heads and if she doesn't do the same it will offensive to others. The fact that you can equate covering your head out if respect and apartheid or an appalling dictatorship shows just how narrow minded and bigoted you must be.

fourcorneredcircle · 08/07/2014 22:38

I know it's tempting to keep rising to this poster, Lord knows I want to bite back but let's just all walk away. If we don't feed them they can't feast.

ArabellaRockerfella · 08/07/2014 22:35

PROUDMAMMA - Would you wear a bikini to a church wedding or a christening?
You don't need to be afraid that you might sound bigoted....you actually are!
Interesting first post by the way.

purpleroses · 08/07/2014 22:35

But isn't she "forced" to cover up parts of her body that we consider private every day?

She's a child in legal terms but most 13 year olds have hit puberty and already understand about keeping some parts of their bodies private. She's just learning that some cultures have a different definition of which parts are private surely?

mineofuselessinformation · 08/07/2014 22:34

You're not sending her to South Africa fgs. Don't demean yourself by trying to equate the two.

titchy · 08/07/2014 22:34

Presumably you would chooseNOT to visit N Korea and apartheid South Africa though. And your dd can choose not to go on the trip.

So you really don't see yourself as intolerant then? Despite your refusal to respect others views when visiting them? Wow...

happygardening · 08/07/2014 22:33

Proud so on this basis you would expect to be served pork scratching and sausage rolls at a Jewish wedding if you didn't agree with the principle of not eating pork?
Unbelievable.

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 22:32

Wannabes tress free,
Your name sums you up. Delete.

OP posts:
mineofuselessinformation · 08/07/2014 22:31

*IT