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Original poster

Advice wanted on wording this letter

380 replies

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 19:36

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OP posts:
Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 09:39

MaudantWit, I take your point that my letter is a bit on the long side, but I tried to fully explain myself as succinctly as possible. Incidentally, it's one A4 page, shorter than the letter originally sent to explain the trip.

OP posts:
FFSFFS · 09/07/2014 09:38

Your Dd wouldn't be sitting in 'internal exclusion' if she didn't go. That's a silly thing to say. She just wouldn't be on the trip. I'm sure the teachers would be lovely to her.

MaudantWit · 09/07/2014 09:33

The letter is far too long and rambling. If the girl is going on the trip anyway, all that is needed (at the very most) is a sentence to suggest that, in future, the guidance for the trip should suggest modest dress, without being any more prescriptive. Of course, if the school adopts that position, the religious institution may decide not to host future trips.

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 09:28

So what would you do MrsM?

Volunteer to help on the trip and then grab DD's hand and together storm the mosque bare-limbed and bare-headed?

Hug a pillar until the police arrived to remove you?

What would the point be?

If you disapprove of religious dress codes to such an extent, withold consent for such trips. The end.

The OP's position is nonsensical. As is her letter.

MrsMcColl · 09/07/2014 09:23

I think it's a good letter. I entirely agree with you, OP. It's a terrible message to give girls, that they have to cover up at the behest of a religion.

happygardening · 09/07/2014 09:04

I'm not convinced staying at school for the day working on her own or I'm assuming with the children of other parents who've got nothing better to do than make a fuss about a very insignificant details that is beyond the comprehension of the majority of the sane and rationale parents who feel as strongly as you do is "social exclusion". I'd be interested to know how many that will be by the way.
You really seem to making a very big deal out of a simple RS trip.

catinbootz · 09/07/2014 09:03

This is a really weird thread

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 08:57

Titchy, yes would prefer to go on the trip than to sit an internal exclusion. Normally used by school as a pretty serious sanction.

OP posts:
Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 08:55

Bloody auto correct!

OP posts:
Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 08:52

ad hominem

OP posts:
Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 08:51

Molio, I assume from your resort to ad homing attacks that you have nothing intelligent to contribute. Be on your way.

OP posts:
titchy · 09/07/2014 08:33

Tbh OP you're the one putting her in that position. She's already told you she'd prefer to go on the trip.

Molio · 09/07/2014 08:27

montreal is this the first thing you've taken issue with at the school, or are you a repeat offender?

I've been asked several times for 'appropriate' headwear for my DC in this situation, both girls and boys, and don't see what there is to quarrel about. Unless you're quarrelsome by nature.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 08:15

Titchy, fair point if we were talking about me, but we aren't, we are talking about an 11 year old who should not be put in this position. I have said in OP what I suggest they do in future.

OP posts:
titchy · 09/07/2014 08:04

Well that's the point about having principles - sometimes sticking to them means you are the only one taking a particular course of action. Kind of tests how strong they are......

But what do you think the school can do? They've assumed a certain dress code is required, reasonably enough. I expect if they tell the mosque that this won't be enforced they won't be invited back next year. And everyone loses out.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 07:58

Aggghast, No we don't have a genuine choice. It is not the same as choosing to visit the Vatican. Were you told that if you chose not to go to the Vatican, you would spend the day by yourself in a room writing a potted history of the Vatican?

OP posts:
NorthWards · 09/07/2014 07:52

I don't think anyone is trying to deny you that right montreal, the point is that the vast majority seems to disagree with your motives. If you feel the right thing to do is to try and get the school to change the trip, to not include places of worship necessitating head covering, then (baby eating atheists aside) that is your prerogative.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 07:46

Herculean, done exactly that and DD does not want to be left out so will go. Merely trying to get school to think more carefully about this next year and not put parents in the same awkward position again.

OP posts:
FFSFFS · 09/07/2014 07:45

It can't be Montreal - I lived there for years but it could be a wee village somewhere in the sticks in Canada I suppose. Confused

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 06:32

I'm still curious about where it is where being an atheist is akin to telling people you eat babies as a hobby.

Presumably either Canada as a whole or Montreal specifically FFS Hmm

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 06:31

Well this is v weird.

hercules1 · 09/07/2014 06:18

I am quite surprised by some of the responses to the op although a few years ago would have written something similar. However I now have a 10 year old dd and completely agree with you, Op. I would explain my reasons to dd and give her the choice though.

Agggghast · 09/07/2014 02:02

Went to Milan at Easter, if we wanted to visit the Cathedral had to cover shoulders/knees, so my teenage daughter went back to the hotel to change. Our choice, we wanted to see the Cathedral. Surely feminism is all about accepting and respecting other people's choices, believing we all have the right to make/live by our own. Not every religious woman is oppressed. Yes we should all fight for those that are but we should also respect the choices of those that are not. You have a choice, although I am not entirely sure you are allowing your daughter the same right, go or don't go, simple.

FFSFFS · 09/07/2014 00:34

I was being constructive, I suggested you either take or not take your DD to school but that you don't bother sending the letter. I don't believe it will achieve anything.

I'm still curious about where it is where being an atheist is akin to telling people you eat babies as a hobby.

happygardening · 09/07/2014 00:33

I accept your beliefs they're not mine but I accept they're important to you. What interests me is that you are so anxious and opposed to your DD experiencing the views of others and that when under the roof belonging to others who don't hold your views you don't believe that out of courtesy she should be respectful of their beliefs. You would rather she offended them. I find this just very odd and rather sad.