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Original poster

Advice wanted on wording this letter

380 replies

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 19:36

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OP posts:
Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 10:43

Molio, may I ask, if my daughter wore a headscarf and was asked to remove it on a school trip, would your position still be that it was a very minor matter and I would be quarrelsome to dispute it?

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 10:41

You really need to shred your letter and start again.

What it says/conveys and what you think it says/conveys are two very different things.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 10:39

FandB,
And you are a rude person. Descriptive, of course, not pejorative.
Now please take your toys and go home. You may come back when you can play nicely like almost everyone else on here manages to do.

OP posts:
Molio · 09/07/2014 10:39

'Be on your way' indeed!

My (I think perfectly intelligent comment) is that the tone of the letter suggests that you like to pick quarrels. It seems to be more about you and your atheism and your feminism and less about the headwear and trip. This is such a very minor matter, and a matter quite clearly where liberal people would take the approach that respect for another culture requires the temporary donning of headwear (for both girls and boys), that only someone dead set on confrontation for its own sake would take issue. This is not a big deal. Some other aspects of certain religions may well be a big deal, but not this - it's no more than manners.

Agree with happygardening that there is no way working on their own on a project constitutes 'internal exclusion'. I think you must have very little real idea of how schools run, and what staffing levels permit and don't permit, for you to fail to understand that this arrangement is a perfectly sensible one, probably the best they could do.

Agree with FAB that this will not endear you to the school, who will probably take the view of the majority on this thread who regard you as silly, or worse.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 10:34

No, I said the girls should be given the option to wear the headscarf. Nowhere have I said she must not wear it. Please read the original post carefully.

OP posts:
Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 10:28

F and B, I really hope you're not right that anyone who tries to write a polite letter pointing out a reasonable objection to a school policy is summarily dismissed as a nuisance and a crackpot.
Not sure I want to teach my daughter the lesson, "if you have an opinion you feel it is important to express, better to just keep your mouth shut lest someone dismiss you as "that woman/girl/mother".

OP posts:
BuzzardBird · 09/07/2014 10:28

Are you aware that the boys also have to cover up?

MostWicked · 09/07/2014 10:26

But much more importantly, she doesn't want to be seen to be different or do something her friends are not doing
I feel it is obviously my job to make the ultimate decision about what she wears.

So then you are imposing your views on her,
which is exactly what your objection of religous dress is about.

They say you must wear a head scarf
You say you must not wear a head scarf
How do you claim the moral high ground?

The atheist view would be, give her all the information and let her decide for herself.

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 10:23

Your position is nonsensical. That is descriptive, not pejorative.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 10:21

FandB,
Yes, it is the message I think my letter is conveying. May I ask, do you think calling other people's opinions silly and nonsensical conveys the impression that you are a civilised and polite person? I realise that we are posting online, but there really is no need for the derogatory tone. I trust you would not speak to people that way in the real world.
That said, thanks for first constructive thing you've said yet. Ringing mosque might be a good idea. I will think about it.

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 10:18

How exactly is pointing out to the school that perhaps this could be better handled putting myself "on a collision course" with them. You do realise that not everyone takes such umbrage at being disagreed with?

OP I couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I am telling you, however, that your letter will do you no favours (and I speak as someone who shares your disquiet about gendered religious dress requirements).

Your DD is growing up in a multicultural UK and is being asked to show respect for a specific religion by observing dress conventions of that religion for a short educational visit.

It is possible to do these things out of respect whilst still internally critiquing elements of global religious/cultural practice. You explain THAT to your DD. as I did to mine.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 10:05

Mrs McColl, thanks. I take your point about the conclusion I've reached - if you'd asked me a year ago I'd probably have said I would withdraw her from the trip, but can't face putting her in the position of isolating her from the rest of her class.
I hope school will think more carefully in future about the position it puts parents in and find a more sensitive way to deal with it.

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 10:04

It would be usual to cover your head on a mosque visit. Is it the type of headcovering you are quibbling with? Because there are limited (remarkably similar) options.

Have you 'phoned the mosque yourself? Surely that would be a sensible and easy step to take before firing off heated letters to the school.

If it is a (v rare) mosque that is happy with bare heads, you can point this out.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 09:59

F and B, but it isn't how Islam is practiced worldwide. We have visited mosques before where many visitors were not wearing headscarves. School have additionally said that they have made the ruling not based on mosque ' s request, but on their own assumption.

OP posts:
mrsminiverscharlady · 09/07/2014 09:59

I think I agree with you montrealmum, but can I clarify: are you objecting to girls being told to wear headscarves when boys are not? Or that students who do not comply with the dress code must sit essentially in isolation? Or something else?

Sorry if I'm being dense, it's been a long week!

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 09:59

No, I mean inflammatory. Unnecessarily provocative and hostile.

No. I mean which of my words do you think was inflammatory? The strongest word I used was "silly".

How exactly is pointing out to the school that perhaps this could be better handled

Is that honestly the message that you imagine your letter is conveying?

You posted asking for opinions on your letter. You have been steadfastly ignoring the opinions for 140 posts now Hmm

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 09:54

No, I mean inflammatory. Unnecessarily provocative and hostile.
How exactly is pointing out to the school that perhaps this could be better handled putting myself "on a collision course" with them. You do realise that not everyone takes such umbrage at being disagreed with?

OP posts:
happygardening · 09/07/2014 09:52

"Working on her own" in the learning support centre and with children of other parents who hold the same views which from the views on this thread are not going to be many. She not been asked to clean the loos or pick litter all day. She knows as do the school staff this is not punishment, she is not being internally excluded, just the only possible practical arrangement. What do you want the school to do run a day of lessons for 1 or 2 children, take them on a jolly somewhere else? Be sensible OP. As I said before if you feel that this is also not appropriate keep her at home and talk to her about feminism and how wearing a head scarf because this is what you religion requires makes women second class citizens if that will make you feel better.

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 09:52

Seriously, why give yourself a reputation as 'that mum'?

My sensible feedback on your letter is that it reads as though you are holding the school responsible for the way Islam is commonly practised worldwide. Which does make you sound more than a bit silly.

MrsMcColl · 09/07/2014 09:51

I agree with all the points in the letter, but would - probably, hypothetically - come to a different conclusion about permission.

I think it's absolutely worth trying to make the case to school, but they probably won't want to listen. Worth a try though, just in case someone has their critical thinking abilities switched on.

FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 09:47

Inflammatory? You mean 'silly'?

Good grief. If you are going to put yourself on a collision course with the school so needlessly so early in her school career, you really will need to toughen up.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 09:45

FandB, I find it interesting that someone who is preaching tolerance and the value of understanding others' points of view is so needlessly offensive when discussing ideas and viewpoints they don't agree with. Your inflammatory language does your argument no favours.

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 09/07/2014 09:43

So I would probably end up not giving permission, explaining to DD why (she would totally get it), and not sending her to school that day.

So in what way are you agreeing with the OP and her silly letter?

Consent/don't consent. That is the choice. You wouldn't consent. Fine, sorted.

Original poster
montrealmum · 09/07/2014 09:41

FOR, I have been told that the arrangements are that she will do RE coursework on her own in Learning Support Centre. That is also the arrangement for people who are internally excluded. Although of course she will get to go to lunch and break.

OP posts:
MrsMcColl · 09/07/2014 09:40

I would try to explain to school why I thought it was wrong. But a PP who I guess is a teacher has spelled out the way in which parents' views are disrespected - comes as no surprise, sadly.

So I would probably end up not giving permission, explaining to DD why (she would totally get it), and not sending her to school that day. (It hasn't arisen for us, and I hope it won't.)