Anybody else watching the letterbox, waiting for appeal result letter?

Hi, yes she was! The clerk appeared just before we went in but before that he was in a different room and came out and announced we were to go in. I felt so stupid, I was nervous and was saying how I'd had no sleep, was nervous, felt sick etc and she just smiled politely and said nothing. However after waiting with her again at the end I apologised( don't know why ) for in my eyes " grilling her " and she made small talk and said she wished me luck. At the time I didn't think anything of it.
So I gather I shouldn't have been left alone with her either before or after?

Was the Deputy Head presenting the case for the school? If so, the clerk should have ensured that you were not left with her unless the the clerk was there with you.

Thanks to both of you, it helps to get insight from others, I feel like I'm going crazy!
I e-mailed the EFA this morning and they have just rang me.
The lady is going to send me the paper forms out tonight:) and was very nice.
So what route am I going down? My thoughts are 1-the decision making process of the panel 2- the comments from the panel members
Any thoughts on how I was informed of the decision, ie a very poor quality photocopied letter with neither my son's or my name on, then to wait a further 2 days for the paperwork. The Clark commented on the Wednesday when I rang him to see if the letters had been sent and he said yes and there were 8 allowed but he thought it would have been 12!! Strange thing to say. And lastly, when I was shown up to the appeal room by the rep, I was outside left with a lady so made "small talk" as a bit of a wait, she was the deputy head!!! I obviously didn't know that until we went in:(
At the end I was told to go outside and wait for the school rep to take me downstairs and out, she never came, I was stood outside the door with the deputy head again!! I then realised the rep wasn't coming and made my way to the stairs and she was coming up them with the next parent!
Any advice with how I pursue with the EFA would be greatly appreciated and sorry it's so long.

I agree with HPparent. Having the same appeal panel year in, year out calls into question their impartiality. And the letter from the Ed Psych makes a strong case. It is possible the successful appellants all had stronger cases but it seems unlikely.

I think it is bad practice to use the same Chairperson and panellists for the same school year on year (though not forbidden). It would make me think that they lacked impartiality. They could certainly do with some training given their behaviour.

If the clerk's notes are illegible they should provide a transcript quite frankly.

If it was clear from the Ed Psych's letter which school she was talking about I don't think it matters that it was not named.

Sometimes we see letters for example from the GP which say something like "Ms X considers the school is best for her son because of...." which don't carry much weight, but if someone is giving their professional opinion and stating why only that school can meet the needs it does.

Headteachers letters are common, letters from SENCO less so and Ed Psych's letters are rare in my experience and I think there has to be a good reason to disregard them. It could be that the panel thought you did have a strong case but other appellants had stronger ones and they could not admit all.

I don't think the panels I sit on are pushovers and we have allowed appeals in very similar circumstances to that you describe.

The letters mentioned the appeal school, apart from the ed psych but hers was very detailed and thorough and she made a lot of reference to "the appeal school " but didn't name it.

HP, I've contacted the efa and am now concentrating on looking for another school for ds, unfortunately, won't be Catholic which is what we really wanted but time is ticking until the schools break up and I stand by what I said about the travelling concerns, he will not be going to the allocated school.
I've got absolutely nothing to lose, I heard on a thread from last year which I recently found that 2 children were admitted to appeal school via Maladministration appeals ( Sept 13 entry) I wonder what happened there as they used the same panel.
Judging by the clerk's handwriting on the envelope, it will be extremely difficult to read his notes. I can't let this go now, I've had a week to think about it and in my opinion, the way the decision is written leads me to believe that the most important reasons for wanting this school have been overlooked.
I will also be mentioning the panel, I take it that's not normal?
Thanks for your reply:)

As a panellist I am shocked that they did not ask you any questions. Even for hopeless cases I ask questions. In a case like this one which could go either way I would definitely ask questions to confirm one way or another.

Assuming your letters named the school in question I thought your case was relatively strong. I have no idea how strong the other cases were, but I think the panel at least owed you an explanation as to why the letter from the Ed Psych and the hospital were not strong enough evidence.

I think giving you false hope by saying how well you stated your case and giving personal anecdotes is nasty to say the least. We sometimes say something like "thank you for your clear presentation" but nothing that can cause an appellant to think they have succeeded especially as we don't make a final decision until all the cases have been heard!

Prh, thanks, I got most of the way through the efa form and then it asked me to upload a copy of the decision letter, my kindle wouldn't accept it from the clerk last week so I don't know how I'm going to do this?
I do feel like I've got to challenge this, even if the efa don't agree then at least I can lay it to rest.
Potbellyroast ,thanks for taking the time to messsge, I just feel very let down by the panel to be honest, we had a good case with medical evidence and supporting letters, the chair had commented how impressed he was by my written statement but I did tell people afterwards that I felt it went "too well" looking back now, the panel did not ask me 1 question!
How can the clerk fail to understand why I'm so upset by it all? He was there!
I rang him Tuesday, he was very cold towards me( previously been chatty/very friendly) and literally said that he didn't get why I was so upset and when I mentioned that the decision was literally 5 lines long he got all defensive and said that everything was taken into account but as I said to him " that's not how it's worded on the decision part " it only mentions the mixed sex element etc, he basically said there's nothing I can do, the panel have made their decision.
Shall I pursue this? My doctor has given me more anxiety tablets, this has literally taken its toll on me:(

appeal I am a clerk to appeal panels and I would say complain!

Our Panel members are known to be quite lenient but from what you have said in this thread you would more than likely have had a successful appeal.

The only reason you may not be successful with our panels would be if they had to rank cases if they felt the school could only accommodate x number of pupils.

I'm new to this topic and I am in total shock with how some of you describe the hearings!

You can lodge your complaint with the EFA online here.

Thanks for your reply prh, I'm glad it's not just me.
So what do I need to do now? I really wanted some closure last Thursday but feel like I'm back to square one:(

My dp tonight said I "need to let it go " but I disagree.
If I believed that the panel had taken everything into account and still felt that the school's case outweighed mine then I would have accepted that.

I am now faced with my asc/anxious child with 3 weeks left in a primary School that he loves, dreading going to secondary school because he's petrified of the travelling alone issue.
There are 2 local failing academies with horrendous reputations that he could go to and where loads of the kids that have made his life a misery over the years attend.
We're not spoilt for choice here, many single sex schools which wouldn't suit ds and I honestly don't know where he's going to go.
My heart is telling me to fight this but my head knows I've got to find him another school, doesn't help that I live in one borough and both the appeal school and allocated school are in another so neither LA seems to be helping. The borough where I live say that they don't really know the schools involved and the borough where the schools are say I should contact my home authority.
Secondary schools in home authority with the exception of one are in the worst schools league tables:( 6 out of 7.

This confirms that you need to take this case to the EFA. The clerk's notes suggest that the appeal panel failed to consider your case properly. It is, of course, possible that the appeal panel did give proper consideration and the clerk is rubbish at writing decision letters but the only way to find out is to go to the EFA. If they agree that the panel hasn't considered the case properly they will order a fresh hearing with a different panel.

Just to add, the letter from ds senco and headteacher I assume don't hold much weight but I had a very strong letter from the principal ed psych and 2 letters from his asc specialist doctor at Alder hey and these were all collectively referred to as "you provided various letters of support in relation to X's condition and ability "
Also some of the wording has changed in relation to what I asked the deputy head, I know exactly what I said, and as part of my evidence it states that my son is involved in rugby and wants to continue this at the school, first I've heard!
I'm so angry!!!

Hi everyone, just after My last post on Friday morning I received a call to say my uncle had passed away in the night, he was only 52:( so everything else went out of the window, it's been a horrible few days.
So I received the official paper work yesterday from the clerk and am disgusted with the way it has been written.
First page- decision, second page-how the original places were allocated the schools prejudice arguments. Third and fourth pages-evidence on behalf of the parent, 25 separate issues/reasons. Fifth page-questions I asked the school representative. Sixth and final page-reason for decision.
So it starts with explaining the two stage decision and at the very bottom of that page it says this, " the panel took account of your reasons for appeal. The panel noted that X needs a co-educational school as a single sex school would not be right for him and that you were concerned that he would be ridiculed and bullied. The panel however felt that on balance this was not sufficient to outweigh the prejudice that would occur by your child's admission to the college and for this reason agreed not to allow the appeal"
So 5 lines at the bottom of a six page letter, that's it.
As I understand this, they haven't taken the fundamental reasons I stressed into account ie Catholic education, excellent pastoral care, travelling issues etc and have focused on the mixed sex element, I don't get it.
Another pair of eyes may see it differently, I'm so upset, I feel like it's not me who's let my son down, it's the panel.
Please any advice on this, my son is heartbroken and is refusing to go to the allocated school as its too far and he doesn't feel safe.

I actually wonder if the clerk has messed up and not recorded the decisions properly. It all seems very odd. Our clerks take notes at the time and at the end we go through each case and state to the clerk the reasons why the appeal is or is not allowed with the reasons.

I wonder if your child has been mixed up with someone else?

Thank you all for your kind words, I want to see the proper paperwork before I can make a judgement but if it's as I think, I will be pursuing it with the EFA.
Yesterday I was very upset but took the letter to my brothers house to show him and the first thing he picked up on was that the letter was not addressed to me, did not have my son's name on, was just a very poor quality photocopy that had NOT ALLOWED typed like this so was just one of the 17 families that didn't have the full papers ready and basically they shoved generic letter in an envelope obviously then addressed to each parent, I think it's a disgrace.
Will update once I've read and received the full paperwork....

Whoops allowed

Very sorry to hear your bad news x

So sorry............... am I aloud to swear??? its just so heartbreaking.

No advice, but just wanted to say I'm sorry things have not worked out for you

Hi again HP! It's an academy so will be efa. Apparently all that stuff will come tomorrow or Saturday with the rest of my letter. The clerk emailed but my kindle wouldn't accept it so my dad accessed it from his computer and looks like a lot of things have been overlooked and there was no mention of the travelling concerns.
I feel very let down and just told my son, he put on a brave face bless him x

A panel giving false hope is wrong. Being encouraging is fine but they shouldn't be leading you to believe you have won.

If they haven't considered your medical evidence properly you definitely have grounds to refer the matter to the LGO or EFA (depending on the type of school). That will not get you a place but it may get you a fresh appeal with a different panel.

appealtakingovermylife so sorry, I don't blame you for being gutted. I think the panel giving you false hope is utterly unethical. In any case they are not supposed to make a decision until all the appeals are heard.

I would tell the clerk that you are complaining to the Local Govt Ombudsman (assume it is an LEA school) because the panel did not take account of your son's transport difficulties and also bring up the comments made to you. Then start the LGO procedure. It also sounds to me like the clerk did not take proper notes.