Anybody else watching the letterbox, waiting for appeal result letter?

Apologies for punctuation, appalling!

A similar situation occurred at my daughters very popular secondary school. Last year close to 20 appealed and at stage 1 all got accepted - no individual appeals/hearings necessary, they all went away on day 1 with smiles on their faces. This year there was a lot of complacency in parents - no place offered 'oh we'll appeal, they all got in last year' and a letter written in 5 minutes. Only 2 out of 28 were accepted. Over-crowding and total net capacity were a large part of the case for the school.
The previous years entry in year 7, an outstanding OFSTED leading to parents moving into catchment and in year entrants meant that within a year the school went from accepting up to 30 per form to strictly limiting to 28 due to general overcrowding.
What happened previously is no guarantee of anything. A good appeal case, thoroughly researched can still be successful as was my friends.

I'm mentioned on a quoted thread, but it isn't from this year.

However what I understand has happened at one local secondary this year is that they agreed to take all 27 pupils who had appealed. BUT having a long memory I know when they relaunched they wanted to have 7 form entry (I think thats right) but were only allowed 6 form by the LA. So I think they have just expanded to the number they wanted initially (about 3 years ago).
I might in those circumstances appeal just incase they were willing to make it the round 30.

The spare classroom was newly built this year, so that may have made the difference.
In all honesty, I find it more surprising that none were accepted last year than all this year. I know the head has encouraged people to appeal, and openly said he'd like to raise the PAN as he felt they could handle more. And space wise, the school has generous size grounds and classrooms, more than 30 in a class is not going to over crowd the school.
Maybe the spare classroom was built with that in mind and they'll formally raise it next intake. If they did that, would it raise it through the years, or just the new intake?
They've never had a bulge class before, and there are three or four schools locally which almost never are full, which I think was the LAs argument against raisng the PAN. They aren't full for next year either, but I'm guessing they may become full in a few years time.

don't suggest you make such suggestions or queries though on the back of 15 unexpected successful appeals I wasn't meaning to imply it had happened in this case, I was genuinely wondering what would happen iif that was suspected to have happened.
Sorry if I gave that impression. I cannot in any circumstance imagine the head doing that. He's not that sort, very open and honest and I suspect if someone tried it on he would be the first to put a stop to it.

I was looking at what you said, and wondering what is there to stop a head looking at the appeal children and thinking "they're a nice lot, we'll have them" or "I'm going to fight this lot because they're going to be a pain". Hard to prove anyway.

There's another one that I can't find now by an MN poster who went to appeal and the whole room were told they had won so all had a place. She had a friend who was near top of the waiting list so hadn't appealed and suddenly had no chance of a place and was very upset. That I think is the closest to what I am aware of happening in our case.

So from what I'm reading, the head is able to turn up at a appeal and say "yes we're fine to take them all this year" if, for example he knows there is a child (eg of a friend/staff etc) he wants to make sure gets in? But then the previous/next year he can say "we can't take over numbers"? Because to me that does sound dodgy. (and no I'm not implying that's happened) Couldn't someone offer a backhander to get that situation if there weren't too many appealing?

What would the panel do if they thought that was happening? Can they request someone else comes in, or do they just take the head at face value?

I know the head's usually quite happy to have a few over numbers, which was why I was suprised none won last year, because there were less than 10 appealing, which would be less than 2 per class, which they've gone to before. The PAN is 30 per class, I know he asked to have it increased (I think to 32) and was turned down two or three years ago, my initial thought was that the school had been granted the increase, but apparently not. (there are other junior schools in the area with PAN of 33, so it wouldn't be unprecidented)

Thanks for the help.

If however something has changed that allowed people to win this year who wouldn't have won before, she might be able to appeal again and raise that in her own case.
So she needs to find out what the official reason is that they won, and if that is something that has changed she can use that. Her appeal (to my mind) was certainly stronger or as strong as those I knew this year.

it seems to me the panel felt the school's case wasn't that strong so all those appealing won because in comparison their cases were slightly stronger I have been told (second hand) that basically the head turned up and said "we can cope with all these people" and the appeals weren't heard, just accepted. I don't know how true that is, but I don't think it's totally off the wall.
They were definitely told pretty much straight away, I'm fairly certain actually at the appeal, certainly not by letter anyway, because I know when the hearings were and they knew the same day. But they may have wanted to let them know asap as induction days were the next week, so they may have phones/emailed later I guess.

no appeal panel will want to create classes over 33 that's what I hoped for. So if more come forward and they decided to admit, then they'd need to look at a bulge class, which, as I said, they could do without too much problems.

Another question then:
If they've admitted 15 extra in year 3, could the school use that to argue against admitting more in other years-ie saying that the school as a whole is at capacity? All years are over full, with at least one child over PAN, so it won't be absorbed by spaces in other years?

If one of the people who didn't appeal, comes forward and shows malpractice at the appeal, would they take the places away, or would it stand? (I don't think they should take the places away, and certainly hope they don't, because I know some of the people, but I'm just wondering)

Could my friend ask for transcripts of the appeals this year and use that to help her? Or is she not entitled to them as they weren't involving her?

Can I ask the experts a question for a friend?

I don't know the full details but the basic facts are:
Local large juniors last year (current year 3) no appeals were upheld.
This year (next year 3) around 15 appeals (all, I know for definite of 15) were just waved through (they were told then and there). I know one of the people appealing and their argument was basically "it's not fair", and I'm fairly certain there was no malpractice, nor has the PAN been formally raised.

Two questions:
My friend was one of last year's appeal: Is she able to make use of the fact they allowed all appeals this year?

Other question: I know that there were people (eg the number 1 and 2 on the waiting list) who chose not to appeal because they either thought they would get in off the waiting list, or because they thought they would have no chance, so didn't bother.
Do these people have any claim now-particularly the ones who thought they had a good chance off the waiting list and now have to wait for 16(or more) children to leave before they will admit?

I'm a little concerned because my ds is going into year 3, and there are around 33 in his class now, he has hearing problems which means he find smaller classes easier rather than larger. If they admit more (there were 38 on the waiting list) would they potentially have to go for a bulge class, rather than adding them to existing classes? What's the largest class size they would admit to junior level before moving to a bulge class. (there is a spare classroom so a bulge class could work)

Yes, I've had dealings with the EFA. In my experience they are less helpful to parents than the LGO but don't let that put you off. They do still find in favour of parents in a significant proportion of cases.

I would be really interested to hear from anybody who's had any dealings with the EFA, am expecting their paperwork tomorrow to start the complaints process, thanks.

ok, thanks, as always.

Failure to question isn't directly against the Appeals Code but it can give the impression that the panel has made up its mind before the hearing, which they are clearly not supposed to do.

Just to add, the only question they asked ( the lady panel member spoke ) was to ask what the allocated school was, this concerns me because in my original statements I called it "the allocated school" but in the letters from the Alder hey specialist its mentioned several times, so they would have already known that.
Also after seeing the doctor in May, she wrote the second letter which I received about 10 days before the hearing, took straight to clerks office who said he would give it to the panel,it really stressed the schools name, saying my ds is extremely anxious about the traveling issues and I wonder if they even read it now.
I wonder why it questions their impartiality if they asked me no questions, sorry to question that but I need to understand it myself:)

Sorry... pressed send by accident!
The school rep was just there to escort parents up to the appeal room and out again (or in my case-not)
The presenting officer was the deputy head and that's who I was left standing outside the room with twice.
So I've really got to focus on how they came to their decision, the panels behaviour and possibly the way it was communicated.
I hope thats enough.
I'm sure the EFA have their own way of investigating though and its ultimately their decision.
Like I previously said, 2 Maladministration appeals were successful last year so the EFA will be aware of the school.
Thanks again for your thoughts and support.

Thanks prh, the clerk told me that the chair ( also previously Lord mayor back in the day ) has sat on this schools panel for the last five years though I'm not entirely sure on the other two.
When we received the names of the panel members it said Mr x, Mr y and Mrs z. Mrs z was not there and it was another lady.
The ed psych letter was extremely strong and I'm surprised that held no weight. I emailed her yesterday to inform her of the situation and am sure if it got to a re-appeal she would help us again.
Just to clarify the school rep

I would raise a number of points:

• they are using the same panel as last year which calls the panel's impartiality into account

• they did not question you at all during the appeal which again calls the panel's impartiality into account

• they made comments that gave you false hope. That is a bit of a push as it is not strictly against the Appeals Code but it is extremely poor practise

• there is no evidence that the panel gave proper consideration to expert ed psych evidence stating that your daughter needed a place at this school

The way the decision has been communicated to you was poor and may be in breach of the Appeals Code so I would raise that but don't spend too much time on it. The EFA is unlikely to give you a fresh hearing just because the communication was rubbish.

You mention the school's rep but you also say the Deputy Head was presenting the case so I'm not entirely clear who did what. If the Deputy Head was presenting the case, what was the school's rep doing? However, if anyone involved with presenting the school's case was alone with the appeal panel and clerk at any stage that is a direct breach of the Appeals Code so you should definitely raise that. If that is what happened it is enough on its own to justify a fresh hearing. Before you entered the room the only people who should have been in there are the panel members and the clerk. When you left the room everyone else should have left at the same time apart from the panel members and the clerk.

There is nothing in the appeal code to say you must not be left alone with the person presenting the school's case. Neither of you must be alone with the panel but nothing wrong with the two of you being alone. I have been to many appeals where the school's representative met the parents and escorted them into the hearing.

However, what you have described is the school's representative taking you to the appeal room then leaving you outside with the deputy head. You then leave the hearing and are told to wait for the rep. If the rep was in the hearing representing the school that is two clear breaches of the Appeals Code.

I will get back later with some further thoughts.

No, you definitely should not have been left alone with her . You must mention it in your letter to the EFA. It will probably be considered to be maladministration and should lead to a fresh appeal with different panel members and clerk.

And just to add, she said "you did very well "
Feel like our whole appeal was a farce.