'State schools are creating amoral children'

playfortoday in my previous life as a lawyer I've met hundreds and hundreds of criminals (including a fair few murderers).

The vast majority attended state school.

But crime is linked with poverty, not morality IMVHO...

Really, I do think schools have a huge part in providing children with a moral compass. It's all very well saying parents should do it, but it's a bit like sex education. Of course parents should but many don't. So school has to stand ready to take up the slack.

Because school is the only chance a lot of kids get.

I think you're right Mart he's really talking about "well rounded individual" not moral versus amoral individuals.

The only friend of mine who has sat in a classroom with a mass murderer went to Eton.
(This is true btw, he was the crown prince of Nepal).
Not saying every public school is full of them, but that private schooling is no prophylactic against a criminal life (see also Darius Guppy, Lord Lucan et al).

It is the parents job to teach right from wrong PHSE didn't exist when we went to school as parents could be bothered to do this.
Yes, wider society and school are responsible for up holding and encouraging good behaviour, but it needs to be taught at home.
The problem is discipline, by this I don't mean punishment.
Parents are too busy, schools don't have the time, cc workers are only allowed to do so much and aren't the parents anyway.
Nobody is taking the responsibility, so can't say as I'm surprised.

Sorry- by " extra curricular" in this context, I meant non academic stuff. But I don't think he is/will be really talking about morality, is/will he? He's talking about the rounded broad education that some private schools do so well, and which is harder to provide in the time/money strapped state sector.

The way I see comprehensive state education, it's not a matter of teaching inclusion and equality, more of practising it.

This.

The reasons why it's a report on a speech that hasn't been given is that - and this is standard practice - it's been given to journalists in advance by the press office. I used to do this too in my days of running press offices before I jumped ship to become a hack. Politicians do it all the time, that's why you'll read 'X is expected to say'.

AIBU to read an undercurrent of 'we don't get the grades but we do produce Fine Upstanding Chaps'?

I think most schools in both sectors promote the concept of treating people with respect etc, and that it's an ingrained approach which makes the most sense and reflects how society works.

I accept sofishy that being open to everyone (providing you meet their admission criteria and get a place in your choice of school which appears to an issue for many on MN) does embody the principles of inclusion and equality. But it would be equally as wrong as the above mentioned head to state that independent schools don't teach/promote/believe in inclusion and equality.

That does seem daft - in our school, moral/ethical behaviour, treating other people with respect etc isn't an extra, it's just an ingrained approach which obviously makes the most sense and reflects how things work in society. We're all supposed to learn how to behave day-to-day, not go to special morality clubs when we have a spare evening.

As Hilaire Belloc so nicely put it:

Like many of the upper class,
He liked the sound of breaking glass.

Going on the activities of the Bullingdon Club, I feel that I can extrapolate that all public school pupils are glass-breaking thugs, who only avoid prison because of their expensive lawyers.

Gosh, do I get to be quoted on the font page of the Times?

Are extra curricular studies and activities intrinsically associated to the teaching of right and wrong? (Genuine question)

They may not teach them (although ours comes close) but they come closer to embodying them. In as much as state school is open to everyone regardless of income and you are not selected on the basis of wealth.

The way I see comprehensive state education, it's not a matter of teaching inclusion and equality, more of practising it. In my children's schools you don't need money, particular views, or any religion, or to pass any test. And they make great efforts (IMO) to value all the children equally and give them an appropriate education.

I consider this morally desirable. I love the ethics my children are being exposed to in this system.

To be serious- what he appears to be going to say (how odd to be commenting on a speech before it's made- reminds me of my old days as a Thick of It type person) is that private schools have more time and money for extra curricular studies and activities. Who knew?

Madd I doubt state schools teach "leftie, egalitarian, echo-type with underlying communist urges" ethics anymore that independent schools do.

He's obviously a Mumsnetter. Isn't the general view that you have to either be a Christian or go to private school to have a moral compass?

Oh, for goodness sake. The (IMO, and I do realise that much of mumsnet will disagree with me here) ethical and political aspects of a free comprehensive education available to all is a reason that I'd choose state schools for my dc even if the independent ones were offering me free places.

It depends what your ethical priorities are. My ethics (leftie egalitarian eco-type with underlying communist urges) are very compatible with the ethics of state education, and not compatible with what I perceive as the dominant ethical stance of many people in the independent sector.

95% of children go to state school, surely that would suggest the figure for criminal activity etc would be more likely to fall to people who were educated in the state system. Also, surely other factors woukd be at play? It's a more diverse section.

I do agree though, teaching morals is the jib of the parents and if children are being neglected or showing abnormal behaviours at school then they need to be refered to exterior agencies or services

It's true 93% of the population are amoral inarticulate thugs.

Oh wait

It's in his interest to say that because he is trying to get more customers for private schools. He is trashing the opposition as someone else said.

A local boys' prep has a billboard up along the side of the road saying that they are the only school entirely focused on the 11+. It sounds thrilling at that school!

So has anyone actually said this then?

The news article claims he will say this and he will imply that. Not that anyone has actually said it.

This head is apparently the chairman of the Independent schools Association according to the article it's members (340 of them) do not include the big name public schools, most are small schools owned often by the heads themselves. These are the type of school that frequently and increasingly struggling to fill their vacancies, so of course he's going to say this sort of thing how else can he attract parents?
IME result/league table obsessed schools exist in both sectors, and I doubt either has a monopoly on the effective teaching of right and wrong.