'State schools are creating amoral children'

Nigella to quote my nanny "we tend to hear about (and of course be haunted by the likes of Victoria Climbie) and remember the nasty (dysfunctional/abusive/non coping one) and assume that this applies to all.
I've worked with thousands of parents from every background nearly all love their DC's and are desperate to do the right thing often in the most tragic of circumstances.

but why do certain people send their children away at the age of 6 or 7 unless they hate being a parent? I do not refer to those who use boarding schools for good reason or older children.

no I am not trying to wind anyone up honestly.

Asharah and hedwiggitiy are both illustrating the easy trap of overextrapolating from narrow personal experience. Asharah must have been let down at Durham by some 'cruel, dangerous (!), hedonistic' man/woman. We all know the type although perhaps not in those extreme terms.
Nigella's comments seem to fall into the category of 'sweeping statements for a wind-up'.

OK it was a sweeping statement but there is some truth in it.

Nigella a sweeping generalisation! Poor people's children are not routinely put into care if they can't "deal with parenting", despite exceedingly limited resources, increasing government pressure and negative press SS and others attempt to help and work with all who they know about who can't deal with parenting taking a child into care is really a last resort. On the other hand boarding schools are also not stuffed with children's whose parents can't "deal with parenting" either.

that is right sparklyglitter if rich people cannot deal with parenting they send their children to boarding school, if poor people cannot cope their children go into care,

Personally I don't think it is an issue of State versus private more large versus small. Many State secondary schools are massive, which makes it much harder to know the children as well as would be possible in a smaller school. With size comes a lot more anonymity and the chance to get away with bad behaviour, which would be less likely in a smaller school.
I have experience of both private and state schools there are many rich people who do not have good parenting skills just like in state schools - I would imagine the percentage is about the same.

Many moons ago my lovely charming Afro Caribbean nanny said to me at a time when they was increasing violence amongst their community "there are nasty black people out there but the vast majority are hard working decent citizens, there are also nasty white people out there but the majority are hard working decent citizens, but we tend to hear about and remember the nasty one and assume that thus applied to all".

I scan read hapoygardening- I am sorry but before 7am I am not on top form! I saw some truth in what she said. I agree 100% with gingergenie but maybe I missed the odd word there too.

I expect asharah was just reacting to the sweeping statements about state schools. It just shows that sweeping statements about anything are ridiculously inaccurate when analysed.
There is good and bad anywhere and teaching a moral code is a job for parents. It is just supported and reiterated at school. It starts at birth- long before the schools get them.

Going back over asharah's posting the word minority was not mentioned you then delphinium said "very true".

I can accept that we all have different experiences of schools in both sectors, and that if we have a negative experience we can easily extrapolate this and conclude that all will have this experience. There is someone on here who has a negative experience of my DS2's school, hasn't got a good words for it, their experience is not mine but I accept that it's not worked for them.
But this is completely different from stating that societies most unpleasant people went to the "best public schools". As I said if I wrote societies mist unpleasant people went to state comprehensives most would be highly offended and angry.

Sorry- have no idea how the exclamation mark crept in the middle.

I agree she made huge sweeping statements! There are however a minority like that. There are a minority like that from private schools! state schools or home education.

There are sweeping statements on here! You get a personal experience and a bit of hearsay and apply it to all schools!
Hedwiggity didn't like her school, she doesn't like what she hears- makes huge leaps to how they teach science etc and thinks they are all the same. My son must be the same age- his science and maths was perfectly adequately taught- they got him to a Russell Group university and a physics degree- from a comprehensive. ( all without tutors)

Delphinium she clearly stated "the most unpleasant cruel self interested dangerous and hedonistic people came from the best public schools" a sweeping generalisation if ever there was one.

I didn't think she was saying that- just pointing out there is no difference- the amoral are not produced by schools- you get them whatever their education.

So asharah what your saying is that if you go to "the best" schools you are likely unpleasant, cruel, self interested, dangerous (?) and hedonistic. That quite a sweeping statement and if I wrote that about state educated children were likely to turn out like this many would be justifiably offended and angry.
I've spent my whole adult life working with people from illegal immigrants, drug addicts, life's drop outs, major and minor criminals, psychopaths, your average man/women/child though to the wealthy the exceedingly wealthy, and the titled, all nationalities. I've met the unpleasant and cruel, definitely the self interested, the genuinely dangerous and the hedonistic they come from all walks of life, all classes, all background, all nationalities. Actually looking back over 30 years of working with people I've met relatively few who have all of the traits.

Very true gingergenie and asharah.

Let's take a quick look at the jobs which feature a high proportion of privately educated people: the current cabinet, investment banking, corporate boards. Anyone happy with the morality demonstrated there? From practical experience at Durham uni, the most unpleasant, cruel, self interested, dangerous and hedonistic people came from 'the best' public schools. That's setting aside the automatic unfairness that a bought education and the old school tie causes. Maybe a moral code is taught in private schools but if so, it is either very flawed or taught as a 'these are the the principles that others will follow, that you can ignore due to your privilege and take advantage of in others'

Yes, and equally, a lot of privileged, financially advantaged and otherwise cranially underachieving children have learned to believe, either through status and/or money that certain moral misdemeanours can be financially cleansed.
It is quite probable that the vast majority of poor, state-attending low-lifers (and I include myself in that statement) can learn best practice from our predecessors: the ones who worked hard, the ones who, paid their dues (their REAL dues and not what they thought they could get away with)and the ones who scrimped and scraped for every penny. Quite often, it is their offspring who learn that life and its riches come at a cost. Regardless though, private or state school, a child's morals are learned way before they start school. So if a child, at secondary school is amoral, who is really to blame?

im sorry? what? - do the children referred to in this posting not have parents, grandparents, family or any other support network? if that's the case, and these children have been deprived of the love, care, and nurturing that they need to enable them to grow into morally balanced and emotionally balanced individuals, then i absolutely agree that this is a difficult dilemma for schools, and not an easy situation to manage with the minority of children who have a critically dysfunctional home life.

other than that... seriously... what are parents doing out there? im pretty sure that right and wrong is learned, at home, from a very early age. it is supported and reiterated at school, BUT SURELY WE SHOULD NOT ABSOLVE OURSELVES OF THIS RESPONSIBILITY? isn't this one of our primary mandates, as parents? jeez? nanny state gone completely wrong. topic for my next book i think! next thing you know people will be suing the government because their children have 'emotionally malfunctioned'. TIMES NEWSPAPER I'm appalled you promote this crap!

ouryve "rgs is Newcastle is Aldi, in comparison" - Did make me laught lol :-)