'State schools are creating amoral children'

I think it's a speech to be delivered next week, isn't it?

What do you mean about the 'universally accepted piece of information' - grade pressure? And what alternative do you see him suggesting?

I am struck by this idea of a Moral Compass. Presumably it draws a Perfect Circle, as opposed to an immoral one?

nit his speech (did he actually give it BTW?) covers more than the moral compass malarkey, but FWIW, I agree, that I can't see many parents turning to the independent system out of a heartfelt desire to procure a moral compass for their DC.

Most parents, however their wallets sit, provide their DC with a perfectly decent set of values. Just as it should be.

And yes, he's not helping teachers who find themselves under grade pressure by mentioning it, but, frankly, that's not his job. He's pointing out a fairly universally accepted piece of information and ssaying that there is an alternative. That's what his job is.

I've heard a lot of concerns about schools, but this moral compass business has not been one of them - I don't think he's 'tapping in' to anything that's a particularly frequently expressed anxiety.

If faith in the comprehensive system (or rather, in comprehensive schools, since we don't and never have had a comprehensive system) is low, I struggle to see how this minor prep head thinks he's helping with that in this speech.

If state schools don't get the results, they get brow-beaten - if they do, they're obviously doing it at the expense of any moral compass for their pupils. Bonkers.

Nah mother he's just tapping into the current concerns about education.

And there are concerns. People can be as defensive as they like, but faith in the comprehensive system is diminishing, hence the numbers of people trying to get places in grammars, faith schools, free schools and independents.

And this isn't just middle class angst. Many working class families are equally concerned. My Mum lives in a dyed in the wool, working class, ex mining area and the schools issue is a hot topic. The faith schools are bursting at the seams and parents are looking to free schools...

I tell you, he's going down the Fine Upstanding Chaps line. Moral fibre. Stuff that built the Empah. Oompah oompah twirl moustache and down with all this book-learnin' tosh.

We are also hearing from those who are not happy - quite explicitly in some cases as in 'my experience was crap- therefore all state education is crap'.
He is just doing as the Daily Mail does on a regular basis.

I agree, delphiniums- he is just adding to the sum of middle class angst and fear of the unknown.

Delphiniumsblue I" do however realise that we hear more from those not happy".

I think we hear just as much from those defending the way things are to those who are not happy.

He isn't saying anything that you can't read on MN or hear in a wine bar anydsy of the week- but it doesn't make him right. If I believed life was like it is portrayed on MN I would want to emigrate! I do however realise that we hear more from those not happy.

Thanks HG, this does put the quote from her into context and very much explains the relevance :-)

I didn’t initially see the relevance and if you see TheWordFactory response, it looks like they didn’t either.

*TheWordFactory - "mumtrying have you read the rest of happy post?

It was about a black person commneting on the black community ... so of course it was relevant."*

Er no, it was a black person commenting on both black and white communities:

"there are nasty black people out there but the vast majority are hard working decent citizens, there are also nasty white people out there but the majority are hard working decent citizens, but we tend to hear about and remember the nasty one and assume that thus applied to all".

Nigellas I think you're probably right!

I can imagine this guy with two piles of notes, and two ideas for some vague notions he could build into two possible specious-but-convincing speeches with the Torygraph would lap up:

Speech 1: State schools, with their never-ending touchy-feely emphasis on caring and sharing, SEAL, circle time, Young Leaders Awards, community service, PSHE and so on, are failing to provide young people with the skills needed for simple hard graft, exam passing, pushing themselves to their academic limits, and an understanding of the need to be well-qualified in a competitive world. The private sector, by contrast, is determinedly focussed on ensuring that each child achieves the results of which they are capable, and leaves the airy-fairy emotion, helping others, and community shit to the hours outside school.

Speech 2: State schools, with their never-ending focus on results and league tables, are churning out children with good results but no moral compass etc etc...

Both equally meretricious and equally plausible-sounding... eeny meeny....

He isn't saying anything that you can't read on Mnmsnet or hear in a wine bar any day of the week.

It's a simple scare mongering marketing exercise.

I tell you what NIT he is probably trying to drum up business for his little third rate prep school.

I went to a very tough secondary school ( which got me 3 A grades at A level and RG Uni thankyou teachers you are amazing) and I met people who were violent cruel hedonistic. Some are now in prison for murder.

Some people are just like that.

No, he said that to state school teachers:

the only results that matter are those which have created added value in terms of raising a pupil's statistical level more than the norm from one age group or stage to the next
and that state school parents are also to blame for buying into this ethos. Hence the lack of 'moral compass' which he bemoans.

By contrast, he argues, private schools:

with their respect for discipline and academic seriousness, sport and culture, citizenship and community, service, environmental awareness, spiritual life and personal responsibility, sends out into the world young people with emotional intelligence, developed moral understanding and a willingness to make a contribution to society

I don't think that's really the same as saying that teachers are under pressure, and nor do I think the word 'unassuming' applies to (or near) a man who is making such bizarre claims about state vs private. I'm busy wondering what the fuck he thinks he knows about it, or why he thinks he qualified to comment, to be honest. I think he may just be being deliberately inflammatory: I can't see any other reason to come out with such half-baked, half-witted nonsense.

Some of the reactions on here are quite odd. The HT of an unassuming day school says state school teachers are under too much result focussed pressure to allow them to deliver a broad education and folk are frothing. Yet this is a constant theme of the teaching unions.

I mention that she was Afro Caribbean because of the terrible increasing levels of violence that were occurring amongst her community at the time, (nearly 16 years ago) in a certain part of London, primarily caused by yardies, her own nephew was killed in a shooting incident which was what printed her comment and the black community in general were getting a terrible press from the like of the DM etc.
She had experiences high levels of racism from employers and was tired to see her community repeatedly criticised in the media.

mumtrying have you read the rest of happy post?

It was about a black person commneting on the black community ... so of course it was relevant.

I "sent" mine "away" at 7-8 no one would dream of saying I don't love them, we are not a dysfunctional family although I accept we're very eccentric but that currently isn't a crime, and my children are also very far from dysfunctional. We are all different, we all parent in different ways, as long as we are not neglecting them, or abusing and providing our children are happy then we should leave parents to do things in the way that suits them.
I don't want to enter into the pros and cons of boarding debate because it's been done to death, we read endless anecdotal stories from thirty years ago of misery bordering on abuse and no one shifts their opinions.

happygardening - "Many moons ago my lovely charming Afro Caribbean nanny..."

HG, was there a particular reason why you mentioned that your nanny was Afro Caribbean? If it had been my husband saying this, I certainly wouldn't feel the need to add "my African husband ..."

Sorry Nigellas, cross posted (or winked). Sending away at 6 to 7 is extreme. It happens in China even earlier by parents who want the best education for their children. There may rarely be some good reason to in the UK but for most of us it would be unthinkable.

that is true happy