'State schools are creating amoral children'

I know, I agree with you and I think it's mainly down to the cost of housing in proportion to wages

I think some boarding schools are reliant on a steady stream of foreign students...but not most day schools (which is what most private schools are).

Though of course there are foreign families who move here, precisely for our education system (both private and state). DS school has a share of Americans/Russians/Chinese/Africans whose families have got themselves transfered to London so they can access the world renowned school for their kids.

The reality is that a generation ago, a family with a parent in a traditional middle class profession could afford many things that they no longer can; private school, a SAHP, a lovely home in an area of their choosing...nowadays, not so much.

Not that there is anything wrong with overseas students being here. I don't think I made that clear

unless you are over here on secondment from the states doing the same job as your uk counterparts, your salary and expenses pay enough to facilitate it. Surely there is a high proportion of overseas students at private schools anyway (if the ones by me are anything to go by) ? Is the 7% statistic just based on British students?

Amber I think there are definitely people in that category.

They think their class and job ought to provide them enough for private education. In the past it would have done. But that's no longer the case.

Many who would like to send their children to independent school, simply cannot afford it.

But surely that's always been the case? Or is it a problem now because that group is starting to include people who think their children ought to be able to go to private school?

pip I'm sure it does. And this situation is not of their making.

The recent thread about the prevelance of cheating in MFL exams was . But that's what happens when teachers are under too much pressure!

I do recognise this though:

Walden's assertion that too many staff in the state sector, living in "a climate of fear", are unable to provide children with an enriching education…

That climate of fear, whatever it stems from, does get in the way.

martorana
I think it depends what one means by responsible.

Sometimes what we say, won't be popular. Sometimes it might put the cat amongst the pigeons. But providing one isn't simply mischief making, then one is entitled to say what one thinks.

I'm asked to pontificate about all sorts of shite. I try to honest and entertaining. I don't see it as my duty to foster world peace and harmony .

As for Walden, I don't think what he said was earth shattering. Not really.

The quality of overall education does seem fairer and more level in non grammar school areas though. Incidentally, my mum lives in an ex mining community and the local mixed comp gets great results and the school my nephew attended (and a lot of my family) is in the top so many of the times good school guide.

I am happy and have always been happy with my children's schooling. The three between them have been to eight different state school, three of which have been special schools (one pd, two sld/pmld) and apart from concerns about the one special school, all have been very good and offer a good range of subjects and extra curricular. The current special school my daughter attends is falling to pieces, the surroundings are dire tbqh. It need redecoration, better facilities etc. But the level of care and therapeutic input under a driven, dedicated head and committed staff is beyond amazing. I will be sad when she has to leave.

Bonsoir I think the idea of why parents pay for private school is an interesting one.

There are one or two posters on MN who proffess to know exactly why people pay. Apparently, they can read minds, thousands of them at any one time .

But, actually, I think the drivers are very varied.

Walden (is that his name?) has tried to identify one of those potential drivers, and IMVHO got it wrong.

Had he said, state schools are being relentlessy squeezed by grade pressure and governemnt interference, so choose our independent schools for a broad education yadda yadda...then I think it woul dhave been a solid argument.

Though, it would still have stirred up the usual suspects....

That said, I think trying to sum up The One Main Reason why parents do and should choose independent education is a fools game. It's just not that simple!

"martorana sometimes we get a platform to speak our mind. I'm sure if you did, you would take it too."

I hope that if that platform was a professional one I would speak responsibly.

TheWordFactory - I very often share your position on private schools and I do believe that UK private schools are generally well placed to offer a deeper, broader and more tailored education to their pupils than state schools. A great deal of data backs this up.

For anyone to claim they deliver a more moral education is a very subjective proposition indeed. There is undoubtedly a section of the population which finds its own values better reflected in private education than in state. Those values often encompass a great deal of entitlement and inherent superiority. Morally better? I think this is extremely dangerous ground.

mother yes fees have been hiked quite out of kilter with wages. Many who would like to send their children to independent school, simply cannot afford it.

This may to some extent account for the increase in pressure for places in grammars, faith schools and free schools.

martorana sometimes we get a platform to speak our mind. I'm sure if you did, you would take it too.

Word- the difference is that he has a ready made audience and a position which gives weight to what he says. And which feeds the fear of the unknown.

It's just a sales pitch. I've heard heads of lots of schools do them. My School Is Better Than Anyone Else's School Because...fill in as appropriate. Comp heads do it too (though frankly I was particularly swayed by my own daughters' head-teacher because she advised we actually look at a wide range of schools to see which one fitted best). It smacks of desperate flailing around in a financial climate where increasing numbers of people can't afford private schools and/or don't see that they'll get value for money from a little-known minor prep.

Having said that about my daughters' head, I probably would listen to her wider pronouncements because she's actually worked in education beyond immediate service delivery.

martorana depends on the school.

The parents at both my DC's schools are interested in far more than grades. They would be very pissed off if grades came at the expense of the other shizzle they're paying for.

How can independent schools dilute some of the pressures that teachers feel get in the way of teaching?

No NC, no SATs, longer days to include more ECs, no early sitting of GCSEs, no modules, iGCSEs, fewer GCSEs, no EBAC... etc etc

Tis up to the schools if they want to do this...

As for what would be the appropriate response for any commentator...well that depends entirely on the context.

Interesting this grade pressure thing. I can't see many private school parents being happy with less than stellar grades because the school was concentrating on building moral compasses............

Because he's the kind of 'educationalist' who's seen fit to bestow his immense wisdom only on a very small section of society, and whilst he might be qualified to pronounce on, I dunno, effective ways to arrange seating in a classroom, I don't see why he's qualified to make sweeping statements about What State Schools Are All Like.

If I were writing a speech on education, I wouldn't frame it in terms like 'private schools churn out arrogant, entitled individuals who have no moral compass because they've been told at a young age that they are better than 93% of their peers', for example.

Right, but surely the appropriate response would be to attack successive governments for that relentless focus, rather than suggest it's somehting schools do because they want to, and frame the argument in terms of this 'whole child' business.

How do you mean, 'offer some dilution'? You can't be saying the bigalternative answer to all this relentless focus etc etc is 'send more children to private school', can you? And you surely can't be saying that it's a questions of parents possibly wanting to pay or possibly not?

I can see why the head of a prep school might conveniently suggest that as a solution, but not why you would think it's an answer? Reminds me of my grandad always telling us 'the body is a machine that runs on sugar' to justify liberal additions of such to all food.... and it transpired that the quotation came from the head of Tate and Lyle!

But nit why should he STFU?

Is no one allowed to have a say except the ahllowed few who are all singing from the saem hymn sheet.

He's an educationalist, a teacher, a parent, a citizen. What more qualifications does he need?

Do you have any? Does that stop you saying your piece? Errrr....hardly!

An dif anyone would listen to you in RL, you'd say your piece too .

Yes nit grade pressure. The relentless focus on league tables and value added scores etc has put teachers in an intolerable position.

Over the years, they've been forced to adopt any and every method to ensure those 5GCSEs come through. Many of these methods are highly dubious (one could say immoral) but really they've been backed into a corner that is not of their making.

Independent schools can offer some dilution of these pressures (if they choose to). Parents may or may not want to pay for that.

That's what his job is
no his job is to get more customers for his little school that nobody has ever heard of

And no, word, you're right - it's not his job, and he's not qualified to do it. His job is to educate the children at his prep school, and he should stfu and do that, I feel.