'State schools are creating amoral children'

it is certainly true that middle class life was far more 'no frills' back in the 70s even if you did go to private school.

Bonsoir's childhood sounds very like mine. We had our vegetables from the man in the village with a market garden, I had cast off clothing from my cousins or sewn or knitted by my mother. Our holidays were largely with an aunt who lived by the sea or an aunt who had a farm. Our house was not large but it was chilly once you left the main fire. We didn't afford private education, but it was a common situation for many who did. It was why I like Enid Blyton- the lifestyle was immediately recognisable. I lived in a village and we went out after breakfast and came back for meals.

Oh, I don't know, Bonsoir's childhood home sounds similar to mine, although I went to a state school, where it definitely wasn't the norm. The eating your own vegetables thing was never expressed to me as a money saving device, however, more a lifestyle choice! Some people actually ENJOY growing their own vegetables. Also, second hand clothes made sense in the days when clothing was relatively far more expensive than it is, now. You no longer save large amounts of money buying your clothes second hand and you most definitely no longer save money making your own clothes - there are plenty of places selling cheap clothing these days. I wasn't aware, though, that people had stopped passing clothes on to siblings, cousins and neighbours. Clearly I'm living in a time warp. The only thing that really surprises me is Bonsoir's failure to mention a leaky roof. Surely Bonsoir's house had one or two buckets always at the ready to catch the drips when the rain got too heavy?

quite possibly someone has been reading 'Fantasy Island'

Not me, nigella- but I fear others might have........

Martorana you have clearly OD'd on Enid Blyton and Evelyn Waugh

And whether it had a secret tunnel to the beach.

[somewhat over invested in Bonsoir's childhood home.........]

Bonsoir - did your large drafty house with large garden have no central heating at all when you were growing up? Or do you mean your parents could waste huge amounts of energy on pumping out heat into radiators in drafty rooms that let most of the heat escape? That certainly wouldn't be so affordable these days (although if you sold said drafty house at the right time, and built a house on the old vegetable patch to sell, you could fund your grandchildren's private education very easily from the profits made). Large, drafty houses and gardens are colossal money pits. It's FAR cheaper living in a tiny house with no garden. You also save hugely on your heating bills if your house is attached to your neighbours' on both sides, as you can benefit from their radiators, too.

You also don't mention who did the gardening, DIY and housework, and whether if done by your parents, they also worked full time? As for the one holiday a year, thing, I'm surprised you seem to think that's abnormal these days. How many holidays are the middle classes supposed to be having, now? Clearly I must up our number.

Montego your right many stick with what we know and understand because this is where they feel comfortable.
I understand the "system" at my DS2's school, I feel comfortable talking to staff there, I like the way they deal with things I feel we're coming at things from the same place. Whereas I always struggled at my DS1's "high performing academy" I just felt slightly uncomfortable especially when dealing with the staff. I could never put my finger on why this was but I just felt we weren't coming at things from the same place.

Win Coll stated in a recent annual report that it's increasing it's bursary fund for this reason, many old Wykamists can't afford the fees.

Charitable status in action...

Had you forgotten, MI? All of us supporters of state education are leafy.........

Right...and immediately with the 'inner London comp'. Sorry to bristle but that's my kids' school you're talking about.

Are there people who had a private education themselves unable to provide the same for their dc?

In my cohort, there are a few. Most of us were educated privately and the majority want the same for their own DCs.

There are some who cannot afford it and one couple I know who do not believe in private education on principle.

We probably all feel most comfortable with what we know. And judging by this and other threads on state vs private, we all made up our minds a long time ago and continue to push the cliched stereotypes back and forth.

I know people who would cry down as over privileged those whose children can go to a school without danger or one that has enough text books.

Comparatively, there is less difference between Eton and an inner London comp than between the comp and some of the schools my DP taught in around the world.

Did you have an ancient family retainer- a nanny who had looked after generations of the family's babies- ensconced in the old night nursery dispensing home spun wisdom to the rackety modern young people when they came for a Friday to Monday in the country?

Two generations ago lifestyles were even more different - after WW2 my GPs sent five DC to boarding school (right through), had a large house in the country and live-in staff, but drew water from a well (no mains) and only one inside bathroom for a household of 10. And no car. People don't live like that any more.

They weren't cost-cutting exercises so much as a way of life - one that has largely disappeared among the MC. I disagree that people who restrict themselves couldn't afford fees today - but their lifestyle would be so out of sync with the MC majority as to be untenable.

Good Lord, bonsoir, your name's not Walker is it? Or did you have a wardrobe full of fur coats upstairs? Or an Uncle Quentin?

And as for house prices, they as two newly qualified teachers paid £900 for their house on the edge of London in a pleasant leafy suburb in the late 50's now worth nearly a million.

"Are they people who had private education themselves unable to provide the same for their DC's"
Win Coll stated in a recent annual report that it's increasing it's bursary fund for this reason, many old Wykamists can't afford the fees. I was listening to a head of another well know boarding school at a recent talk, he was saying that their fees are no longer within the reach of your average small country town solicitor/country GP, they were traditionally sent to boarding schools and now can't afford to send their own children.
My DS and SIL whose parents were teachers, one fairly senior but retired over 20 years ago so probably not on great money, sent two to independent schools my DH to one of London's top independent day school current fees are now £7300 + a term (they were £1000) when he left in 1984 and SIL to a very well regarded school at £5k+ per term that now way outside the reach of a couple of teachers.

bonsoir the thing is those cost cutting exercises wouldn't skim the surface now, would they? Thirty or forty grand a year, net, for two kids, is big bucks. Especially with house prices as they are (bonkers in the SE).

Time for a little post about the nouveau pauvre, surely?

"I also think that many mc parents used to scrimp to provide private education and go without any other luxuries."

This is definitely true - it describes my childhood and the childhood of most the DC I went to school with. We all wore second-hand clothes almost all the time (school second-hand uniform shop and hand-me-downs from cousins), went on a paid-for holiday once a year (though stayed with grandparents by the sea etc at other times), ate fruit and vegetables from the garden (or the neighbours' garden) and our parents only drank alcohol at Christmas (though they might have smoked quite a bit). We lived in large, rattling, slightly chilly houses with huge rather unkempt gardens and went to small prep schools that were very strict! Life was different!

No, morethan. It is people who are politically and psychologically opposed to private education. I find it particularly infuriating when people don't believe this and think it's all about the politics of envy. It make me want to scream!

Hello, I have wondered the same question as Amber is asking.
Are there people who had a private education themselves unable to provide the same for their dc?
Or are people who would never have been able to afford it complaining that it is unfair on them?
I also think that many mc parents used to scrimp to provide private education and go without any other luxuries. Maybe some of these people today wouldn't want to do this and still expect to be able to afford the fees?