'State schools are creating amoral children'

"I see no privilege-my private/grammar educated child blank blah blah" ( can't copy and paste.)
Where have I disgusted you by saying this? You do me a disservice Mart I genuinely didn't in fact don't understand!

HG- please don't pretend not to understand. Read my post again. Or not. I don't really care.

For privileged people to cover their eyes and ears and say "I see no privilege-my private/grammar educated child will not find it any easier to go down the Oxbridge/elite university route than any other child from any other background" is frankly disgusting.

Quite a few of those are overseas / Europeans and doing economics .

DN is at Oxford definitely aiming for a high earning nest feathering job. That's what his patents expect but then they are in high earning nest feathering jobs so it's hardly surprising.

Oxbridge is far fuller of youngsters aiming for the city than it used to be.

Getting into Oxbridge certainly is n't a golden ticket for earning lots of cash if you have a leaning towards academia so rabbit it may well be that the future bankers / high earners won't be arising from those who are best educated. I wonder how many mumsneters who went to Oxbridge or equivalent are actually in high earning careers.

You don't need to be privately educated for Oxbridge but you do need to be 'ready to go' - to have reached a point where you can benefit from the teaching and the extras there. I sometimes think there is too much emphasis in the media on getting the disadvantaged into Oxbridge specifically rather than into a good university - or into studying for a professional qualification. If you are truly disadvantaged, it can be a bit of a leap. Especially in arts/humanities where cultural capital plays a part. I'm not trying to discourage anyone as I feel if interested you should have a go.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you were implying that children from disadvantaged backgrounds are put off applying to top universities because of the way children from some independent schools dress and speak and their life experiences e.g. eating in restaurants and visiting a Gothic churches I think that's rather patronising.

Aarrrhhh try again the life changing event wasn't delightful but I'm hopeful something positive will emerge from it.

""What should schools and as importantly we as parents who also have a lot of influence over his life do Mart to encourage those from disadvantaged background to apply to top universities. Encourage my DS to speak with a glottal stop, show him endless episodes of Eastenders and never take him to an
Personally I think your being patronising of the disadvantaged"

Eh?

The life changing event was delightful by the way but hopefully some good will come out of it.

I'm delighted and frankly relieved to report rabbit my DS has very recently experienced a life changing event and he's now adamant that he has no intention of feathering his own nest at the expense of other by entering banking or finance.

I do hope that a lot of the children educated at places like Winchester DO go on to do important, world-saving scientific research and the like and don't waste their educations on banking and finance with a view to ensuring they can afford to pay for their own kids to go to their old school. I have a bit of a problem with the idea of a fantastic education going almost exclusively towards feathering your own nest at the expense of others'. (fox among pigeons?... )

What should schools and as importantly we as parents who also have a lot of influence over his life do Mart to encourage those from disadvantaged background to apply to top universities. Encourage my DS to speak with a glottal stop, show him endless episodes of Eastenders and never take him to an art exhibition or a cathedral?
Personally I think your being patronising of the disadvantaged.

Those London universities have been more than competitive with Oxbridge for some time depending on the courses. WordFactory's point is that they may be less dependent on pc quotas than Oxbridge and self select for those who can afford London accommodation or can live at home.

My understanding, some of which comes from Word's posts on here, is that Oxbridge are actually actively trying to broaden the educational and social background of their undergraduates, and are funding active outreach programmes to try to make that happen.

HG. I am sure your ds is not actively thinking "I will meet people like me at Oxbridge" I'm sure it has never crossed his mind. It never crosses the mind of my dd either. Which is rather my point. They don't have to think about it. They know people who went to Oxbridge and other elite universities. Their clothes and accents and table manners will fit in. They have been to restaurants and into Gothic churches...........A small but significant part of the journey is over without them even realising they have set out.

A shame? No, of course not. They need to make themselves more attractive if they cannot get the candidates they want.

I agree with that Bonsoir but I think it would be a great shame if Oxbridge were hampered in that competition by coming under so much pressure to make offers they felt inappropriate.

And I say that as someone completely committed to widening access at Oxbridge.

Ultimately it is healthier if Imperial, UCL, LSE etc are providing serious competition for Oxbridge. And there is so much overseas (both EU and non-EU) competition for places at London universities that the quality of students increases year on year. All good.

Actually, though Oxbridge do worry about movement to the US, they also worry about movement to London.

Some of the very fine universities in London are seeing an increase in students from certain well regarded schools. Presumably, they're from families who can actually afford for them to live there.

So whilst everyone gets their knickers in a knot about Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Imperial etc are becoming less and less mixed in intake.

AuntGlegg that earth changing research that he's especially interested maybe one of the best and last serious hopes for our changing planet and it's population. If too many have attitudes like yours it will be hardly surprising that many turn to the a US and other parts of Europe, who incidentally are by leading this essential research, it is considered to be one of the most important areas of research in the 21st century.

They may not stay for ever but they do stay longterm. Those who go later as postgrads and postdocs are more likely to create that cross-fertilisation as they do move around.

They won't necessarily stay for ever - they'll move around as part of the global community. Which is good - new ideas, cross-fertilisation, innovation etc etc only happen when people move around and meet other people with different ideas.

Point taken HG, and it's true that I don't very much care which country produces "earth changing" research. The earth will be changed regardless. That's good enough for me.

Bonsoir for those who really wish to go at that time yes but HG is right from what I've heard, those who go to the USA for their undergraduate studies are more likely to stay.