Appeals question

... Would want to ...

Yes, my starting point too would be that I would not to facilitate the return of a school refuser into the school system wherever that was the reasonable and appropriate thing to do. But I do think that many panels may be (initially at least) sceptical about why one school would be so much better than another for this and that is why the quality and credibility of the supporting evidence is crucial. And hence my last question about the evidence of recent attempts to get back to school.

Maybe I am too long in the tooth and have done too many admission appeals but my immediate reaction if I was a panel member would be that I would want any pupil who is a school refuser in a school if at all possible. However the cynic in me says prove it and I am going to take quite a lot of convincing that daughter will attend given what you have said.
You have to have some convincing evidence that daughter is trying to get back into school and that progress is being made, rather than just not attending. It absolutely needs to convince that she will only succeed in becoming a school attender if she has the support of her peer group at the primary school.
As for de-registering, absolutely do not do this, it can only look negative. Accept that the danger is that you will get a visit from EWO etc and could be taken to court but if you have the medical evidence then I would not expect the LA to start getting tough with you.

Despite that long post, an afterthought.

You say your daughter is still trying to go back to school to be with her friends. What has she done? Have you got documentary evidence of that for the panel to see?

I agree with what prh47bridge and lougle have said.

There are things about your case that I think will help you. But there are other things that I think will be far less help. In particular, it concerns me that your daughter cannot explain (and so you can't explain to the panel) why she won't attend primary school or why the presence of her friends will encourage to go to secondary school when it clearly hasn't encouraged her to continue at primary school. I really don't know what a panel would make of that. As prh47bridge says, much depends on the strength of the school's against admission.

To a large extent, I think deregistering/not deregistering is a red herring. The point at issue is that your daughter isn't attending school. I imagine that the moment you mention she is a school refuser, you will be asked whether she is currently attending and that then perhaps opens up the questions mentioned above.

You asked how much your daughter's preference would count. The school application process gives all parents the opportunity to express a preference, on their behalf and/or on behalf of their child. But appeals can't be won simply on the basis that this is the school the parents and their child really, really want - of course it is, but the oversubscription criteria are there to decide objectively who gets the places and the appeal has to weigh up the relative disadvantage ('prejudice') to the child and to the school. This is why (I think) it is so important for you to have clear evidence and strong arguments about the school refusal and separation anxiety, because you need to distinguish your case from (say) those parents who put only one school on their application form because they think that will force the LEA's hand into giving them a place.

no one can say what will and won't cut ice in this situation

Indeed. We can say what might help but ultimately it is down to the strength of the school's case to refuse admission and the way the panel views your case. Sometimes the school is so obviously full that no appeal can succeed, no matter how deserving. Sometimes the case to refuse admission is so weak that any appeal will succeed. And there is no way of knowing exactly what view an appeal panel will take. I think this is potentially good relevant but there are no guarantees. The fact that the only reason your daughter gives is that she doesn't like it is unhelpful.

has dd said oh I will go to school a - but not this current school? as if she is school refuser then I cant see that change of school will actually change it. unless it is specifically the current school.

has she visited the school you want, what is it about the school that would make her want to go?

that is what you will need to try and explain to panel.

send in any reports etc - they will read them carefully. be prepared to answer questions about the condition she has and diagnosis and why camhs refused her... they will ask "has she been seen by CAMHS" so you might want paper trail showing why not... ie if camhs says she doesn't have an anxiety/MH issue then what does she have?

going with friends wont work that well for large secondary eg she might not even be in tutor group with friends.

however if you can show that eg "she will be taking the local bus with the following six children who are her friends and all live on her street" then that might help.

who are her friends eg does she see them outside school? what if one two or three of those change their minds about which school or move away? it could happen.

showing a local connection to the school possibility to share bus journey etc might be in favour but you cant base it on the fact that children a b and c are going to the school and are her friends . as you cant control whether they in fact will or wont attend the school. but you could say well everyone from her neighbourhood gets the bus to that' school so it will make the journey easier and she wont be on her own going into school.

if she goes to the other one she would have to travel alone.

The trouble is that no one can say what will and won't cut ice in this situation because it will depend on the balance of prejudice.

If the school is full to bursting you'll need compelling evidence that only this school will do and it will harm your dd hugely if she doesn't get it. If the school is full but in reality could take 3 or 4 more pupils in year 7 without any issues then you're more likely to win because the school's case won't be very strong in itself.

I've day on panels where the panel days to the HT 'it must be quite a squeeze in that temporary building?' and the HT replies "ooh no, they're lovely and spacious! !"

You really need a letter from GP or counsellor stating why this is the only suitable school for her. As it stands the fact that she needs the support of her friends won't cut much ice, especially as she is refusing to attend her current school, where I presume the supportive friends are in attendance.

It depends what other evidence there is, martorana. I agree that a parent turning up to appeal saying 'she wants to be with her friends' Would be weak. However, if there was sufficient evidence of real problems and the possibility that this child could return to school if she got a place here... It could fly.

I'm sorry- but without any sort of psychiatric report, the need to be with her friends will carry no weight at all at appeal, it really won't. The panel will rightly point out, apart from anything else, that you tend not to be with your primary friends in secondary school anyway.

I think you need to think really carefully about the situation your DD is in.Your argument could fall down if your only point is 'this is where she wants to go because her friends are there', as her friends are at this school which she won't go to.

You'd be wise to include all relevant information, including the fact that she has seen a counsellor, so that you don't come across as complacent that she won't attend school. Then, if possible, ask her to tell you what she likes about the appeal school. Make sure her feelings are included in your submission.

It is potentially good relevant. If you can show that your daughter is more likely to attend the appeal school than the offered school that could help your appeal. It would certainly help if you can find out why your daughter is refusing to attend primary school. Does she not offer any reasons? Is it possible she is being bullied?

I know nothing about appeals tbh but in my very inexpert opinion, I would think if you de reg her then use seperation anxiety as a factor in your appeal then they might question that.

But I don't know. That's just how I feel.

Do you want to de reg or is it because of the HT?

Ah I see. It's not as simple as 'must dereg'. Legally either she must be in school, have something being done about the school refusal or HE. She can't just 'not go'. I think he's trying to prevent you getting prosecuted for non attendance.

As far as for the appeal I still think it's all highly relevant.

What would be your plan b if the Aspall fails? Would she go to another school or would you home educate? Be aware that the panel may well ask what your plan b is.

Head Teachers aren't allowed to pressure you to deregister, Lucas. Simply not allowed to. You have a right to a state education and poor attendance is not a reason to remove that place.

Does your DD have an underlying cause for the school refusal? Such as an additional need/bullying, etc?

What steps have the school taken to help? Have attendance officers been in contact or education welfare?

Does the Head want you to de reg because of attendance figures?