Would you complain about this teacher?

If you take the issue to the Headteacher they will just ask the Head of Department to look into it. I'd give the Head of Dept a call but go in from the angle that the teachers seems to be having a tough time, with this class, at this time and could they look into it.

This doesn't make the teacher a bad teacher - they may be fine with all their other classes - it may just be a particular combination of kids that is making this group really tough and pushed the teacher to make this comment.

When a Head of Dept myself I often found moving 1 or 2 kids out into another group could drastically change the dynamics and get things back on track - to the benefit of all (including the teacher).

Actually I do! I know a great deal about challenging schools.

Exactly Agggghast. Shame so many parents can't accept the idea that their children might be anything less than angelic and therefore conclude that any bad behaviour in the classroom must be the fault of the teacher not making the lesson interesting enough...

The reality is that I will never engage my pupils as much as a video game/ top shop or twitter. The reality is that it is likely in adult life they will need to do a lot of things that are not 'fun' . I am primarily there to teach them to be successful in their English GCSE and hopefully that will help them achieve their ambitions but I am not there to be a stand up comedian!

Do you really think that all schools deemed requiring improvement are definitely bad schools? I don't. Do you think Ofsted gets it right 100% of the time? I don't. Do you think there exists a teacher who can deliver consistently good, engaging lessons day in, day out with not a a boring one occasionally? I don't. Sorry if that makes me cynical and defeatist, but my view is informed by my own experience. No teacher wants to deliver a bad lesson, but sometimes it happens. Sometimes you plan what you think is a really interesting and engaging activity, and the students are just not willing to go with it, and it falls apart despite all your hard work and planning. On another day you might be feeling really exhausted or unwell, in any other job you'd be hiding behind your PC sipping lemsip and pretending to be sending some emails, so you cobble together a work sheet or two, and lo and behold the students behave decently and do the work and that magic word, progress, takes place. I wouldn't dream of doing that in front of Ofsted but the reality is no human being can deliver engaging lessons 100% of the time in truly challenging schools. A colleague of mine who tried (and was loved by management, had gained AST status) recently had a breakdown. Milly, you say your kids are nice and that they were in nice schools with other nice kids. I'm sorry they didn't get inspiring teaching all the time but they are so lucky that they were in an environment conducive to learning. Have you got any experience of a truly challenging school? I think you'd be less convinced by all the Ofsted stuff if you'd watched anyone try to implement it wholesale in that sort of environment. We don't know where the OP's daughter goes to school, and whether the teacher was way out of line or simply expressing frustration at the awful behaviour, but I think you'd have to know the context before passing judgment.

I did not say lessons had to be "fun, fun, fun" and of course there are important basics to be learnt. However the Ofsted Framework makes it clear what the expectations are of schools and teachers, so some teachers are clearly not engaging the pupils or no school would be failing or requiring improvement due to weaknesses in teaching. Ofsted cannot be wrong all of the time and many parents are well aware of poor teaching in their children's schools. You might consider this lack of evidence, but I think I could name you schools where there are too many poor lessons. My local one in science lessons for a start! Lessons learning the basics are not necessarily boring. By boring I mean the lesson is not tailored to the needs of the pupils, the teacher talks too much, the teaching does not make appropriate use of resources and it is not pitched at the right level for the bright or less academic children. Therefore bad behaviour ensues. My children have suffered poor teaching and because they went to nice schools and were surrounded by nice children,they put up with it. They,nor anyone else, should not have to.

You can't make every lesson exciting all the time. I happen to like doing French grammar but I am fully aware that I am atypical and most children hate it. However, if they want to get the higher grades at GCSE they will need to be able to master at least the basics. What that means is, bringing a pen to lessons, listening, attempting to answer questions, being willing to make a bit of effort when something isn't instantly easy, and not just giving up, sitting back and chatting instead. If every less is just fun fun fun, what are we actually teaching them about life? They need to learn to self-motivate, to not just opt out at the first hurdle, and I think it's too easy to blame teachers for poor behaviour instead of looking at the real issue, which is that we are training children to expect everything on a plate with no effort required.

There is a huge weight of opinion that believes poor, boring lessons brings about poor behaviour in children.

Opinion isn't the same as evidence, is it? I would agree that teachers shouldn't be teaching poor lessons - i.e. ones where the pupils don't understand what they are meant to be learning and fail to make progress, but as for 'boring', well, you can't please all people all of the time. I like solving simultaneous equations, some pupils don't. But whether they like it or not, they need to learn how to do it.

And in many, many classes, pupils are well-behaved whether the lesson is boring or not. Kids at my school are well-behaved out of lessons, this makes it far easier to teach them when they are in lessons. I've witnessed appalling behaviour outside of lessons in other schools, and, guess what? They'd be the kids who'd piss about in lessons and claim it was because the lesson was 'boring'.

When I was at grammar school I'd say well over 50% of the lessons were boring. Mostly consisting of the teacher writing on the blackboard and all of us copying it out. There was no issue with behaviour although some people did fall asleep.

When did I say I taught boring lessons? I actually said that I don't agree with the notion that we have to entertain. As we get close to the summer there are times when a lesson can not be all singing and dancing and by this time students should have experience of a lesson that they are not entertained but there to learn.

There is a huge weight of opinion that believes poor, boring lessons brings about poor behaviour in children. Teachers do not have to entertain, but they should teach well, engage the pupils and manage the class. Fortunately most teachers do not want to be boring or indeed think the children should put up with this. Luckily many Heads don't want poor teaching in their schools either hence such big efforts being made to improve the quality of teaching. It shows little respect for your pupils if you think that your boring lessons should be endured by those you teach. Is this all they are worth, cricketballs?

OP, the short answer is no. I'd speak to the teacher, or Head of Department. No matter how awful the kids' behaviour. I know from personal experience how bad it can get, I've had bad language, nasty threats made and even a chair thrown at me at one school, but I handled it without retaliation or inappropriate words or phrases. (What I was saying and doing in my head at the time was another matter altogether! ;)

The teacher is the role model and that's the end of it. Sounds like an end of tether teacher who needs support. Dealing with persistent bad behaviour and abuse on a daily basis is not for the faint-hearted. It needs addressing generally, then maybe less new teachers would drop out of the profession within the first five years on the job than the alarming rate we have now.

Hopefully this is an isolated lapse, and support will help a frazzled teacher.

I hate to say it but in many schools staff are tacitly encouraged not to get into confrontations with students over swearing, unless it is actively directed at a teacher or another student with malicious intent. I hear bad language probably 4 times in any lesson. I tend to repeat what the student has said minus the swear word to make the point that it's not acceptable but if I sanctioned every time I'd be a laughing stock. So WTF gets tolerated but F you doesn't, if you see what I mean.

Exactly Celia.

Biscuitsneeded Fri 07-Mar-14 12:39:55

"Some secondary classes are horrendous, and it is very hard when you want to teach the few kids who are willing to listen and work and it is constantly undermined by the poor behaviour of others. I wouldn't take it as evidence that the teacher is on the point of a breakdown. He or she probably had had enough of the crap behaviour and decided to tell it like it is!"

The problem here would seem to me that a student who is driven to distraction by disruptive classmates, or who has been unfairly goaded by a teacher, would still be punished for using this kind of language in the presence of the teacher and no amount of provocation would serve as an excuse.

As a good and studious pupil I would not have felt championed by a teacher who lost it and used bad language: I would just have felt even more depressed at the thought that uncontrolled behaviour was now universal. In fact, that's how I remember feeling in some lessons.

"Some teachers teach boring lessons" life can sometimes be boring and I completely dispute that this is the reason for poor behaviour. We are there to teach, not entertain.

Op, if your DD is positive that this was said, I suggest you speak to HoD to voice your concerns

Often bad behaviour is exacerbated by poor teaching. That is why it is important to know if the class is ok in other lessons. It is also important to find out what the school leadership intends to do about the badly behaved children. I know that some children are extremely difficult in class but describing them as "feral" is hardly a professional way of dealing with them. Teachers' hands are not tied regarding discipline. In good schools there is a clear strategy for dealing with indiscipline with support from the leadership team regarding sanctions. However, good teaching and lesson planning is vital so pupils are engaged.

Teachers have always left the teaching profession. Some teachers are in poor schools where discipline is not supported by the leadership team. Some teachers teach boring, poorly planned and executed lessons and the schools do nothing about it but the pupils act up. If teachers can tell "feral" children to "go to hell" what example is this setting? It only tells me the teacher is possibly in the wrong job!

If the kids weren't acting so feral then the teacher wouldn't have said it. The teacher's hands are tied re disciplining these children. How much could you take? This is why many teachers cannot wait to leave their profession.

I agree, in an ideal world a teacher would never need to speak to kids in that way. I'm not defending it. But, having worked in a challenging school, I know there are moments where you want to champion the 'good' kids whose education is being jeopardised by others. I was just pointing out that every teacher in every school is monitored so if this teacher is struggling generally, as opposed to having one particularly awful class, it will be known to the Head. I would go to the Head of Dept before the Head though, if you think it's an ongoing problem and not just a bad day.

It sounds awful, but the teacher who's probably being driven to distraction is going to get a slap in the wrist (or worse), while the kids will continue their disruptive arsing around unchallenged. Doesn't seem fair.

Honestly, the head is not the appropriate person. The teacher's line manager is the appropriate person and this would be the head of department. The head has got way more stuff to do than micro-manage the performance of individual teachers. Maybe at primary where there are about 10 teachers the head would be the right person, but at secondary it's not.

If there is a bigger issue with the teacher, the head of department can escalate it.

Biscuitsneeded. A teacher might be fed up, but that language is not acceptable. If the teacher is monitored, it is totally valid to ask the Head what is being done about class control, especially if other teachers are managing the class. Do not defend the indefensible!

Of course the teacher is monitored. No teacher these days gets away without regular observations. Some secondary classes are horrendous, and it is very hard when you want to teach the few kids who are willing to listen and work and it is constantly undermined by the poor behaviour of others. I wouldn't take it as evidence that the teacher is on the point of a breakdown. He or she probably had had enough of the crap behaviour and decided to tell it like it is!

I would go to the Head. I would want to know if the teacher's lessons are ever monitored and if the Head actually knows the teacher is losing control of the class. This is the job of the Head, not anyone else. I would want to know what the Head is doing about it. What the teacher said is a distraction from the real problem. It is the class control that is the real problem and yes, the teacher needs help, but this is up to the Head and senior leadership team to sort out and they should know there is a problem. If they do not, they are failing to monitor the quality of teaching and learning in the school.