secondary education - not privates school choices

fourcornered What rot! What social progress or challenge to vested interests would ever happen if the only people allowed to speak up were those directly affected? As it happens I absolutely do have a right to call the Council out on an education strategy that leaves hundreds of primary school parents, including me 17 years ago, without a place for their child every year. Many parents end up with only the choice of a distant school they cannot access, and in some cases they have left parents with no school place until after Christmas when they cobbled together a reception class in a church hall ten minutes walk from the main school. Now that is going to start happening at Secondary level as well, especially after establishing an exclusive school when there is a looming school place crisis (never mind issues of choice). I am guessing that you either do not live in the borough or have not bothered to acquaint yourself with the issues but I do know that an awful lot of parents, thousands in fact, are grateful that there is a focus for their dissatisfaction. And there will probably be a few hundred more in a few days time when the reality of their options becomes clear.

I'm private school educated, work in state and my children are in state.

The reason there seems to be so much 'angst' (such a snidey word to use about parents who are worried about their children's education) is as follows (pull up a chair, short lecture to follow)...

I don't know about other areas but where I am the grammar schools take all the most academic children and the rest are in the other schools who then take those children on to fulfil their academic potential in varying degrees of success. The grammars (as much as any school can) seem to be able to provide 'guaranteed' academic success (so they should, they have the brightest children). So parents boil it down to Grammar =academic success, non-grammar = academic lottery. You don't have to point out the flaws in this argument to me but there you go, that's how it is. And so we all fuss and worry and tutor and disapprove and grumble about the system but we play the game because we are parents who want the best for our children and in the areas where there are grammar schools exist the best (defined purely by academic results) is grammar.

I'm sure this is all perfectly obvious but for those lucky buggers not in grammar school areas with good state school accessible, do count yourselves lucky. I see no reason though for anyone to be belittling the concerns of those who don't have it so straightforward - whether it be grammar or crap schools in their catchment area or private schools. There are those who have no 'good' schools within their catchment whose children will thrive and succeed and those whose children go to grammar and crumble under the pressure.

I have no interest at all in independent schools admissions, it's not for me but I understand completely why they are just another group of anxious parents, trying to pick the right school for their child. A lot of private schools are tough to get into so there's still a scramble for places as there is with state schools.

As a very wise woman said to me once: the only way to choose the right school for your child is with hindsight.

So endeth the sermon. Go in peace and educate your child into being a decent, kind and honest person, it's the best a lot of us can do.

I'm lucky to live and work in an area that has a good mixture of schools with a reasonable opportunity of getting in to the one that's wanted (just like the vast majority of people in England).

It's a statement worth repeating. Up and down the land there are good state schools doing a good job. You'd think from MN it was all private schools or Grammar Schools. You would never know that the vast majority of children are educated outside these systems and getting a decent education to boot.

I didn't want this to turn into a bun fight over state vs private. I am a state educated teacher working in a state school. My husband went through prep and public school. Whether you choose to send your child to an independent school or a state school if ultimately your choice however, it doesn't mean that it gives you the right to criticise 'the other side'. I'm sorry if my posts came across that way - I'm lucky to live and work in an area that has a good mixture of schools with a reasonable opportunity of getting in to the one that's wanted (just like the vast majority of people in England). I do retain the opinion though that it's ok to find the way that other people do things odd - such as discussing on an open forum who could be the next possible head teacher for a school. I can't think of any parents, or teachers, that I have every met in the state system that wouldn't find this odd. It's not snobbery as much as experience.

shooting I just want to make my point again about supply and demand. If they offer seven A levels it's because that's what the students/parents (that are actually there) want. Complaining about it from the outside will make no difference. Removing your children from the system will not force change. It will preserve the status quo. Also, if you remove your children from said system you ought to remove yourself from the political arguing as you put yourself in a similar position to Lord True - pontificating on policies that ultimately have no affect on your life. Also, i'd just like to point out that free school's are just as much an experiment as HA.

fourcornered Lord True isn't a judge. He is the leader of Richmond Council, the man whose legacy project the Catholic School was. Three line whip, no Conservative Counsellors were allowed to dissent, though some did off the record.

At the Opening mass the Archbishop, now Cardinal, thanked him by name, not the Council, not even the Head of Education, who happens to be a former Benedictine monk. So yes his choices and interests do matter. Do you really think that he cares about Twickenham Academy? To be fair to the Head of Education I do believe he does actually care and pursued a course that would get them the investment they needed but full well knowing that it meant the Whitton end of Twickenham had access only to a school conducting an educational experiment.

As I said before it is great that RPA now has a local school that parents can have confidence in, but blame parents for not wanting to be part of an untried experimental educational approach at TA and HA (though at least the senior leadership team at HA have shown flexibility in adapting the approach to their cohort)? No. You do realise don't you that whereas at the partnership outstanding / good Academies you get an offer of over 19 A levels in sixth form. At TA you get a choice of 7 with no MFL......

Just re-visited this thread as I saw the number of comments had risen a fair old bit and was hoping to read some good stuff about secondary schooling...... Unbelievable. I'm a state educated mum with a state educated husband and state educated kids with a DD whose needs won't be met anywhere near as well by our good local comprehensive school (I have absolutely nothing against it) as by a private school we also applied for. Our DS would cope very well with it, but our DD is a different kettle of fish altogether. Any money we have to pay for the luxury of choice has been earned by hard work over the years in jobs we got through our good state education. I'm not from a rich London based background and don't identify with that particular group of mums and yes, there are worlds within worlds BUT: not one thread that I have read in the private school items has a pop at mums from another background. I doubt after state school offers come out on 3rd March that they'll all be complaining about the sudden glut of state school threads with snide comments about those mums' backgrounds. I'm new to mumsnet and it may prove to be a short stay. I thought the header of this section was "Secondary Education" and not "Snobbery" (It works both ways, as Agapanthers points out). Knock yourselves out, ladies..... ;)

I don't click Daily Mail links - should it matter that a judge's children went to private school? Parents that earn the very most will often choose private. Anyway, I accept that the council have underinvested and that clearly the catholic school was at best and very tenously misguided. What about the blame that ought to be laid at the parent's doors? Are you going to gloss over that and continue to say that it's entirely the fault of one side of the problem?

I obviously live in the parallel universe too, because I have a job I love, a great boss and lovely supportive colleagues and a leafy base of operations (posh part of Cambridge, genuine leaves with hot and cold running squirrels) where you can actually park.

Now to get DH moved into my universe job-wise...

Clearly pointythings - your school is one in the parallel universe - because it can't exist in the real world

(Actually, you're quite right, it sounds very similar to my old school, which is a good local school with a similar intake to yours, good range of subject choices and extra curricular activities, good pastoral care, effective and committed senior management. It qualifies as 'leafy' because it's on the edge of the Peak District, so the setting is attractive so we have to take a few points off for that!)

Why should they plant trees when Thetford Forest is just across the way (if you cross a busy roundabout on the A11, but hey...) .

Actually the school went Academy last September following a big GCSE hit because of Gove's badger impression with the English grade boundaries, but there are no commercial companies involved and so far it seems to be really benign - and they are now putting more work into pushing the B/A/A* boundary kids and not just the C/D kids, which is great.

And it's a friendly school too, with great pastoral care and no tolerance for bullying. You're right, Volcan, Gove will be coming in...

pointythings - then your school must be slacking, big time. It really should try to remedy the lack of leafiness, by planting a few trees.

Good head, building the school up? Must get Gove onto her case. Can't have that!

And fourcornered bearing in mind Lord True's sons went to Eton, one of them is in this picture with Prince William www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096243/Prince-William-Birdsongs-Eddie-Redmayne-pictured-Eton-wearing-wacky-waistcoats.html, and his daughter to the leading Catholic Boarding School St Mary's.

And we have all been fighting tooth and nail to buy the £1 million, 1 bed flat because it's right next door to the said leafy comp.

But we would go private if we could.......

Just to be serious for a moment - there have been reports on the news this week (and even a version on Newsround) about South Sudan. The phrase that stuck in my mind is that a young woman there is more likely to die in childbirth than to finish school.

We may or may not be smug, but we are fortunate.

oh yeah and beating the selective and fee paying schools into the national music for youth finals

that was all a dream

Nor are comps allowed to teach Further Maths at A level or triple science GCSE, or 3 MFL unless of course they are 'leafy.'

No-one told mine. It's not leafy - our town has some small leafy bits with properly expensive houses, a sizeable chunk of ordinary squeezed middleness and a similarly-sized chunk of pretty damn deprived. The school nevertheless manages triple science, has recently added a third MFL and definitely does Further Maths at A-level. As well as a lot of competitive sport, art and drama, music and other extracurricular stuff. I know full well how lucky we are and a lot of it is down to the head who originally turned it round - she is still there pushing onwards and upwards. She still does some teaching hours too.

and do not forget how smug we are to have access to decent state schools

Also if our kids are in top set classes we are getting a totally unrepresentative picture in any case. Though those top sets are also not as top as proper top sets.

Ah yes, another thread told us that if our children who went to average comps, and managed to get into Oxbridge/Russell group universities then we did not live in the real world. The children I know are real people but apparently they have disappeared into a parallel universe.

Nor are comps allowed to teach Further Maths at A level or triple science GCSE, or 3 MFL unless of course they are 'leafy.'

But this thread is making me laugh out loud so keep it up!

model

fourcornered Do you really think so? Do you think Lord True and Hodgkins care? When I tried to discuss with Hodgkins the fact that the private schools were full of parents who would have preferred state schools and felt slighted that Catholic parents were now being privileged with a new school whilst they felt they had not been given a choice, he was more concerned that the private schools would go out of business if they were to target winning parents back to the state system by giving them more schools based on the Waldegrave and Teddington (outstanding traditional comprehensives, no Swedes attached)

I don't think so, MI- it was definitely academic work above and beyond A level that was required......something about how shocking it as that state school pupils were so badly let down because they thought As were enough......

In ither areas of the country where the mean income does not allow 32% of children to be opted out of state education the LEA wouldn't be able to be in this position. This situation is a vicious circle caused by the council underinvesting and the parents chucking their proverbial toys out of the pram. Perhaps if those parents who have the money, and the education, to fight this sensibly didn't vote with their feet and over stretched wallets more might be done.

Oh and four cornered The Council have long relied on parents to buy out. Even a few years ago when there was spare capacity in the sponsored academies if the number of state school parents going private was just the average of the ten most affluent London boroughs (and it is not in the top 5) then the cohort would have not only filled the available spare capacity but would have required two new five form entry secondary schools.

Oh, Martorana, you mean like music and sports and drama and all those other things you don't get in state schools? Critical thinking and the ability to work things out for themselves?