A level further maths - why is it treated so differently?

A slight digression: why isn't there, say, a Further Physics, or a Further Chemistry?

I would have thought that for students aspiring to take these subjects at university it could offer helpful grounding.

TalkingPeace
no poster of that name on this thread

Lol, sorry my angry post was for TalkingPeace

Typo... Separate NOT whatever I wrote

TheBeautifulVisit. Please, please read the posts. Not a single poster has said that FM is not a proper A Level. I simply wanted to point out to parents of potential medical students that some Medical Schools won't count A level maths and A level FM as two subjects. I was not being dismissive of FM. I really was just trying to be helpful. It has nothing to do with Mumsnet stigma.

Agghhhhhhhh! I did NOT say that FM is not counted as a seperate A Level. No one has said that!! RTFT and don't make up quotes.

I said Further Maths isn't always counted as a seperate A' level if you plan to study medicine. (Cut and pasted from my original post) I said that because it is true and because I thought it might be helpful for those parents with students who are thinking of studying medicine. I don't understand why it would concern you or bother you.

I do not actually care what med schools think of it because my daughter is doing it for totally different reasons

and actually you were the first person to mention that FM did not count as a full A level on Tuesday at 21.38

That seems an odd questionTalkingPeace. I don't know why students choose particular A'levels? Medicine applicants are typically strong in maths and science. I presume the Medical schools who don't count FM and Math as two A'levels wouldn't bother mentioning it if it wasn't an issue.

No one on this thread has actually said that 'FM is not considered a full A'level' Its a shame that you and Webwiz have stated otherwise.

why would medics bother with further maths anyway?

TalkinginPeace the reason I mentioned that FM isn't always counted as an A level with regard to MEDICIBE APPLICANTS has got nothing to do with ^mumsnet snobbery* but rather to do with the fact it's TRUE!!!
I was trying to be helpful mentioning it because some students and parents don't realize.

TheBeautifulVisit You are right about the way they allocate the modules. I had the school check this with the exam board because DS has an offer which specifies A further maths. You have to have A maths in order to get A* FM. Sneaky.

Ah, I didn't realize that beautiful. I thought under the new regs, you couldn't just put any combination of modules together and call it 'maths A Level' any more?

I may well be wrong/thinking only of one exam board - I only thought this was the case from passing conversations.

So much depends on where someone wants to go to Uni.

I can't offhand think of a maths degree course where you wouldn't need a B grade in mainstream A level maths to get in. So let's take that as the least competitive route. I just looked at De Montford, which recruit people with a B grade at Maths to do Maths, and they don't specify what subjects the other grades have to be in- you can do drama if you want to. So to be honest if DMU is typical I can't immediately think of a course where having a C or D in further maths is going to be an advantage to them over any other subject.

If the kid is aiming at a Uni where a grade B in ordinary maths plus whatever else will get you in, and they really want to do further maths, well, OK, why not.

But if the kid is aiming at a Uni where they tend to specify the other subjects and/or the other grades, then not getting an A at further maths is a bit of an own goal, because it kind of says, er, I want to do maths but I just proved that I find it difficult.

OYBBK - DD1 did Maths, FM and Physics, and an EPQ on a mathsy topic (which tied in to an extra curricular high level maths thing she'd done previously, which in turn became the first --killer- sentence in her PS, just in case anyone wanted to interview her, so a good answer to "why do you want to study maths at uni?"). However, I don't think it made any difference to uni applications, although it may prove useful on her CV later.

More important though is the STEP - even if you're not applying to the unis which ask for it. Lots and lots of past papers, sessions with teachers who properly love maths (not always the ones teaching it ), as well as aiming for A*s in the a levels..

Waves to Webwiz - how is your DD getting on? Is she on a placement this year, or is she on the MMath? DD1 is finding Y3 "challenging" but fun, fingers crossed for results this week though...

Do you know the only place I have ever seen the fact that further maths isn't considered a full A level is on mumsnet
Agreed
I think the heads of maths at the 6th form colleges might also take issue with that opinion

Yes, but isn't that people who've done fairly well, visit?

Surely someone who gets a D in any of their A Levels might struggle with university? And if you get a D in Further Maths, you can't even claim you've three completely separate skills.

Do you know the only place I have ever seen the fact that further maths isn't considered a full A level is on mumsnet. Yes some medical schools say maths/fm together doesn't offer enough breath but not that it isn't a full A level. If you aren't sure about an A level choice the best thing to do is to have a look at university course websites and see what subjects they are asking for.

That's very helpful thanks :) we wondered if an EPQ based around a maths subject would be useful in making her stand out. As she lives and breathes maths its good to know that she doesn't need to do extra at A2. We were a bit worried about FM not counting as a full a level.

OhYouBadKitten DD2 did Maths, Further Maths and Chemistry at A level and History to AS. She is studying Maths at Bath. Most of her contemporaries have the traditional Maths, Further Maths and Physics. The university just wants good mathematicians they are not the slightest bit interested in breadth and would probably prefer the candidates who find the A level easy or else how on earth will they cope with university maths?!

At A2 yes, but she'd normally do something else at AS (e.g. another science, not just EPQ).

EPQ not likely to be useful at top unis, STEP performance and AS UMS mark are everything.

For a maths degree would universities be content with maths, FM and physics at A level? That would then give them time to do well on STEP. Dd is considering this route, perhaps with an EPQ added in.
I'm a bit worried that if they are very able mathematicians it might not be seen to be testing enough to do the 3 a levels, 2 of which in the subject they find most easy.
Unfortunately her current school doesn't offer EPQ which is a slight hiccup in the plan.

Further maths is an interesting subject, because, to my knowledge, it's the only A-level that builds on top of another A-level.

When dm did A-levels she did Maths: Pure, and Maths: Applied (what we call mechanics, you could alternatively do statistics). For each of those you did one ordinary maths A-level paper (like everyone else did), and one further maths paper.

When I did it, you did Maths: Pure and Applied (generally mechanics, but could do statistics) and further maths: Pure and Applied (the same as ordinary maths). So you did basically the same papers as dm did, but they arranged them differently.

When db did it (4 years later) it became much easier. Because to get maths and further maths you did Papers: Pure 1 and Pure 2 (as me and dm had done) but then you did statistics 1 and mechanics 1 ie the ordinary maths. And the syllabus for pure had been cut back so far that what he did in pure 1&2 was only slightly more than I had done in single maths.

I think there was at least one exam board that also introduced something called Decision maths. So then to do maths and further maths, you did: Pure 1, Mechanics 1, Statistics 1 and Decision 1. That is, it was no harder, but broader. Maybe to distinguish it, they should have called that maths and more maths!