Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Choosing Subjects for National 5s (Scotland)

61 replies

soontobeslendergirl · 21/02/2014 10:06

I know it is still nearly a year away, but we have just had parents meetings so it's a bit at the front of our minds at the moment.

No1 son is due to start 3rd year after Easter and will be choosing his subjects for National 5 next December/January.

He is very quiet but academically able in all subjects. He likes everything except Social Subjects (Geography, History and Modern Studies). Given his obsession with Lego and Minecraft, and his abilities in Maths, tech and Physics, we were all thinking along the lines of Engineering. He is however very good in English and likes anything to do with Computers and a late meeting yesterday with the Art teacher reveals that he is "very talented" and she would love to see him continue (he also loves Art).

So, given that he can only choose 7 subjects, it's all getting very tight. By looking at last years options forms English and Maths are compulsory (that's fine) and also one of the columns only gives and option of one of the Social subjects (not fine in his opinion). Giving him only 4 subjects left to choose. Out of those he'd like to do Physics, Chemistry, Engineering Science, Computing Science, Graphic Communications, Art & Design and feels he should probably continue a language. There will be lots of combinations that are simply not possible given the structure of the timetable.

The Art teacher was suggesting that he go into Architecture or Product design which would combine the artistic qualities with his mathematical skills. I think we are less sure of his employment prospects with those types of qualifications.

It's really hard to know how to guide them isn't it? He is showing no clear opinions himself, he tends to be overly compliant which makes it hard to know whether you are guiding him to what you think is better from your own point of view or what would make him happier. Garrrgghhh!!!

What is everyone else thinking with their own upcoming childrens choices or what would you think you would choose given the above circumstances.

I know we are lucky btw that he is a good all rounder, but it does make it harder to narrow it all down.

OP posts:
kaumana · 22/02/2014 23:35

Thanks for explaining. Tend to agree with you that N4 will be ignored in regards to further exams taken.

Megrim · 22/02/2014 23:34

Kaumana - because the Aberdeen schools are sticking to only doing Nat 5s in S4, that's why we are limited to 6 subjects. Prelims were in January. All the coursework is scheduled to be finished by the Easter break, plus I think there is some revision time in there too. I think DS has been assessed at Nat 4 level in all 6 subjects already?

We're just going with the flow, DS knows what he's good at and what he'd like to for Highers and at Uni, so I'm not that concerned about him only doing 6 subjects at Nat 5. I got 12 O levels, but as soon as I sat A levels they become much less important, and by the time I finished Uni they were pretty much irrelevant.

Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 23:29

kaumana - the reasoning being for marking them at Nat 4 is so that for students who choose not to take forward music or a language for example will still have a qualification in it that they can use to show that they have a "breadth" in their education, which is what our head is saying that they are looking for

OP posts:
Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 23:26

intheround, you are correct in that there is only enough time to teach 6 subjects in the school year if they choose to do them over one year. Our school has chosen to "steal" a little time of the end of the BGE phase in order to squeeze in enough teaching hours to add in a 7th. Some schools are stealing a lot more and are adding an 8th but are also having to keep PE and RME which for most schools will finish as a compulsory subject at the end of S3

OP posts:
kaumana · 22/02/2014 23:24

Hmm, but then they would have to had demonstrated N4 levels in all subjects prior to the choosing in S4. Seems like a heck of a lot of admin for subject choices that would not be taken. < giving myself a headache>

intheround · 22/02/2014 23:21

They can only do it in one year if the subject numbers go down hence only choosing six.
All qualifications in 4th year and up are meant to be 1 year long supposedly to allow pupils to pick up subjects again further up the school.
What they have totally ignored is that Scottish universities want all the Highers done in one sitting.

Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 23:16

I guess if you consider that the jump from Nat 4 to 5 isn't too big (i think!) then the school is hoping that they should be at National 4 level at the end of 3rd year so it should be achievable? Prelims are not of very great importance any more as there is no appeal based on them.
I have something somewhere that tells you how many hours of teaching are in a National 5 course - I'll see if I can dig it out.

OP posts:
kaumana · 22/02/2014 23:14

Good point prettybird .

prettybird · 22/02/2014 23:03

Megrim - I know the head teacher at ds' school is proud of the fact that they still allow the option to do all three sciences. It is probably at the cost of ensuring that all students follow the BGE in S3.

I suppose their argument is that although they have the right to follow the BGE in S3 - and, in making their choices, are able to do so - they don't have to.

kaumana · 22/02/2014 23:03

What I can't understand is, if you choose your N5s in 3rd year to study in 4th year. How can you possibly cover the course work? Keeping in mind prelims could be held prior to the Christmas holidays. Am I missing something?

intheround · 22/02/2014 22:58

In Highlands they are sticking rigidly to Bge for the first 3 years.
In S3 its 10 subjects. Then 6 for S4. Teachers have been told by LA they aren't allowed to start teaching National 5 until 4 year.
It really limits choice and I'm deeply unhappy about it. I've written to the Scottish Government about it but they believe this curriculum is fantastic and it's not .
Teachers are tearing their hair out with all the changes coming from SQA . And if it goes its up teachers will get the blame

prettybird · 22/02/2014 22:56

He's not doing Art anyway - but I was very impressed at the still life he had done (I talked to him afterwards about it and he said he'd impressed himself with it Wink but although he was tempted to continue it, decided that Art was something he could pick up himself later and/or at evening classes).

The subject that amused me in its "hard sell" was RME. He was really keen for ds to continue to Nat 4/5. Aye right. Hmm I did try to let him down lightly by saying that ds was already pretty clear on what subjects he wanted to do.

The good thing is that his school allows them to do 7 Nat 5s as a matter of course Smile

Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 22:54

When I saw the Art teacher it was just meant to be a normal S2 catch up. It was me that had the hidden agenda of trying to see if she felt he had any talent or was just "good at drawing". I'd barely gotten seated when she said "No1 son is sooo talented" :o

She showed me some of his work...I was impressed - impressed enough that I am going out to get some canvases and get him to run up a few things for the house!

I agree tho that they could very well have a hidden agenda - she was a bit disappointed that they need to wait till S3 to move into classes where they actually want to be in Art as she feels he would flourish better in an environment where they all wanted to be there and work.

OP posts:
Megrim · 22/02/2014 22:51

Our kids couldn't choose physics, biology and chemistry - they could only choose any two of the three sciences, or do triple science.

DS chose physics and chemistry, but is thinking of adding biology in at Nat 5 level in S6.

earlyriser · 22/02/2014 22:46

Also as many of the brighter pupils are encouraged into taking 3 science subjects, it only leaves one 'free choice'. Subjects like Art are bound to see a drop in numbers taking up their classes in S4, hence the hard sell

prettybird · 22/02/2014 22:46

Middle of S1 is crazy to have to make choices: one of ds' cycling friends was having to work out what she wanted to do and what the requirements were when she was still in S1. This included having to decide which of the Sciences she wanted/needed to do Shock. They've barely started doing full science let only getting into the detail of Physics, Chemistry and Biology, less than two terms into S1 Angry. I was so Sad on her behalf.

earlyriser · 22/02/2014 22:43

Remember prettybird, the teachers have a vested interest in pupils taking their subject. Especially when they can only choose 4 for Nat 5. I'm not doubting your son's ability in Art, but perhaps the art teacher is also a very good salesperson!

Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 22:37

Neither of mine are overtly competitive or sporty - I wonder where they get that from?! Blush

No1 son is still very quiet but gets on with his classmates - the art teacher said they are a particularly nice bunch of boys. No signs of the bullying he had at primary which was the main reason for choosing the school we did. Obviously a lot more academic and driven than he has experienced before. He got very used to coasting along at primary and still being the top of the class.

No2 son will be going into 2nd year and is enjoying it - a lot less quiet than his brother - he's got "the swag" and I'm surprised he is doing as well as he is considering that he spends most of his day admiring his own reflection and adjusting his hair!! He wants to own work for Sony in Japan.

OP posts:
kaumana · 22/02/2014 22:29

pretty At the end of S1 Shock

In my DS's(S3) timetable he has his 8 chosen subjects but also RME, PE and art so I guess they are still following the BGC to an extent

Megrim · 22/02/2014 22:27

My son (now S4) had to choose his subjects at the end of S1, but for the subsequent years they changed that to choosing at the end of S2 (6 subjects plus maths and English, plus compulsory PE and RME). They then drop two choices at the end of S3 to leave 6 subjects for Nat 5.

prettybird · 22/02/2014 22:24

I remember too Smile

Sounds like our sons are similar academically - but ds is not quiet and he is also very sporty! Grin What was good though at his Parents' Night was the way that all the teachers said what a joy he was to teach not so stealth boast Wink and how they wanted him to pick "their" subject, how motivated he is and - which I found even more pleasing - how motivatING he is Smile

I was taken aback at how encouraging his Art teacher was (and impressed at the still life she had brought to show me): I'd previously been somewhat disparaging about his drawing skills Blush

I'm pleased with the way that the school seems to cope with the academic kids. There doesn't seem to be any issue with being seen as "nerds". By all accounts, the cohort ds is with is an exceptional one - and as he is highly competitive don't know where he gets that from WinkBlush (from his dad of course Grin), that will keep him on his toes.

Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 22:04

Hi prettybird - I remember our sons starting High school at the same time. Seems just like yesterday - hard to believe they are heading into 3rd year soon!

OP posts:
prettybird · 22/02/2014 21:24

At ds' school (Glasgow), he is choosing his subjects just now (S2), to be signed off by 6 March and they'll start them in June.

I think they're breaching the principles of CfE slightly as they are supposed to keep the 7 areas of the Broad General Curriculum until the end of S3, yet ds seems to be able to drop all "Expressive Arts" (is going to choose Computing Science instead as he thinks it will be more useful - although he was torn after doing a recent excellent oil crayons still life).

He's going to be doing English, Maths (both compulsory), French, Geography, PE, Physics, Chemistry, Computing Science and then PE and RME in the compulsory column.

Not sure if he'll have to drop one at the end of S3 - if he does, it'll be Computing Science. He's capable of taking them all to Nat 5 but at the moment he's planning on being a professional cyclist or rugby player and failing that a geography teacher or a geophysicist. Grin

Other schools in Glasgow seem to be doing things differently - although at least none of them seem to be doing what Lanarkshire is doing (or at least one of the schools in East Kilbride) and making them choose at the end of S1 Shock

Original poster
soontobeslendergirl · 22/02/2014 12:17

There are more than regional differences, individual schools here are doing different things.

Ours is doing 11 subjects (English, Maths, Social, Science, Tech, RME, PE, Home Ec, Languages, Art, Music) for 3 years, well, just short of 3 years as they start the new year at Easter. Then 7 subjects for National 5 in 4th year.

Others schools have a different programme, some doing 14 subjects in first year, then narrowing down in 2nd year, then again in 3rd year and then doing 6 national 5s in 4th year.

OP posts:
kaumana · 22/02/2014 11:54

As far as I am aware it is 8 across all the CEC schools. It was only by reading a previous thread re CfE that I realised there were regional differences re the N5s.