Choosing Subjects for National 5s (Scotland)

I think a lot of schools will get a shock when the league tables come out. There will be much readjusting after that. I suspect those previous high flying schools who are following rigidly to the 3+3 are going to end up with a lower rank because of the restriction in subjects of 6 instead of 8. But who knows? They may end up teaching fewer subjects better, as there is more time in the timetable set aside for each one...

Interesting maybe OwlMother, but certainly worrying if a child has to change schools within Scotland beyond S2!

Your school is in effect going against the spirit of CfE, where a 3 + 3 system was the plan, with one year Nat5s after 3 years of BGE. Will schools like yours continue with 2+2+2 beyond this year? I would prefer that to the other way i.e. reducing subjects to 5 or 6 in S4, but as a parent have no clue which way schools will go as the years progress.

The fall out from this will be interesting too no doubt.

It's interesting hearing about all the different ways that schools are approaching the N5s. Our school seems to treat them just the same as standard grades- ds has just picked his subjects, he's S2. He'll do them for two years , like standard grades, and he does 8, like standard grades.

I'd thought it was just an exercise in rebranding- school has told us they're not really altering how they approach it although a couple of teachers have said they prefer the new courses. Must look into it a bit further-I'm feeling a bit uninformed.

A c grade pass at national 5 is the equivalent of a grade 2 at standard grade.

In my subject there is more scope to stretch the most able students who were sometimes coasting through s4 then getting the shock of their life at higher.

The SQA states that Nat 5 is equivalent to Standard Grade credit and Int 2, but we were also told that it covers more depth/breadth than the the old qualifications to ensure that it's not such a big step up to Highers (new Highers).

Harrietchild - just had a look at ds' choices sheet (his draft one: he took in the final, signed version, today) and even he wouldn't be able to do Art & Design together with PE - both of them are only in the one column.

Someone downthread said that the Nat 5 was a higher level than even the Credit level Standard grade, to stop the big jump between Standard grades and Highers. Ds' geogrpahy teacher intimated something similar at the Parents' evening, as he said that even now he is trying to get the able kids to work at a higher level than the "official" gradings so that they'll have an easier transition.

Achieving Nat 4 gives a certificate not a qualification. Nat 5 gives a qualification that allows the child to take that subject on to higher.

prettybird - like the sound of your ds's school columns, makes a lot of sense!

My daughter did mention Nat 5 being harder than standard grades to make the transition to highers (or whatever if they are changing) but don't know if this is the case.

National 4 is general level.

As far as I am aware, the timetabling works on the columns so it really is a simple choice of one per column. Ds' school had a few subjects in more than one column to give more flexibility. Music is only in one column but Art & Design was in two (so, for example you could choose Art & Design and Music), as are Physics, Chemistry, French.....

We have been hearing (from teachers) that the new Nat5s are harder than Standard grades. Is this your experience?

Hi, wonder if anyone has any advice regards choosing subjects in S2. My daughter has chosen has subjects (North Lanarkshire high school) but hasn't chosen a subject from one column and the school are insisting she does. Does anyone have any experience of this? Is it possible to not choose from one column (my daughter wants to choose music & PE, school are saying she MUST choose from column which is technical/home economic/IT type subjects and drop either music or PE). Just had S2 report - brilliant in all subjects - no issues with behaviour/attendance/homework/ability so I hoped the school would be accommodating (particularly with music as she is currently working on N4 music pieces - she plays outside school and is very sporty - plays ladies hockey). Thanks.

Roseforme, as a parent we are not privy to the inner workings of SQA and schools though. I only hear of the problems with exam delivery via chat on the Internet! The news reports have always sounded rather positive towards CfE.

The overall plan for Senior Phase (or rather the random nature of Local Council and individual schools approach to it and exams) has seemed wrong-headed from the beginning.

Soontobe - our school is also in the top ten state schools in Scotland, and the school has always been very selective on who sits which exams to keep the stats up. DS was asked if he wanted to go straight to Geography Higher in S4, but he decided for himself that he would rather do Nat 5 first, and Higher in S5. It's usually subjects like music, art, languages and possibly maths where the Higher may be offered in S4.

It is possible to have course choice in s2, move to 8 subjects and still follow the principles of a bge. In my subject we use the outcomes to introduce n4/5 work/ level of challenge within the bge thus teaching the core skills students require to pass nat4/5. Halfway through s3 nat4/5 "officially" starts. So students manage to do 8 subjects by the end of s4.

Our school has been doing Highers in S4 for some years and will offer a mix of N4/5/ Higher in S4. Pupils will sit 6 subjects at an appropriate level. But, the admin and delivery of the new exams is a shambles and parents should be up in arms.

My DD is sitting 8 Nat 5s in May. We're in Fife, but the numbers of Nat 5s varies from school to school. Studying for 8 Nat 5s is proving a big task!

I believe the next year group is only doing 7.

Our school is only offering Highers in exceptional cases at s4. A handful of children only.

Intheround - Scottish Uni's have issued statements about how many Highers need to be done in a single sitting. There is some degree of flexibility, for instance considering Highers gained in S4 and S5 to count as a single sitting. You need to take a look at the individual statements.