How do you know if your child is + material and what age do they start to mark work in primary.

circular

Thanks so much for your post.

Yes I thought secondary because parents will have already been through the system or going through it and be able to tell me how they knew their dc were going to be able to make 11+, and I was right, thank you so much .
I have posted from a different angle on both boards and both boards have come up with extremely useful information and both different from each other.

I always find if you have a border subject like mine, it does behove one to post in two areas, even though this rankles some.

DD2 is in yr6. Maybe we are lucky that her school has never seemed Sats obsessed, 'good' state primary, around 90% level 4 and above at end KS2.

The grading we get in end of year reports is A to E for effort and 1 to 5 for attainment, so a 3 attainment is average and what would be expected if DC was on track for a 2b at end of KS1 or 4b at end of KS2.

The only report we had showing NC levels was at the end of yr2 (KS1). DD2 never even realised she had taken Sats tests in yr2, just remember her saying they had been doing some fun workbooks most days that week, and were given new pencils for it.

At end of yr5 parent teachers we were told their levels. I suspect that would have been within the 11+ application deadline (we are not a grammar area but have super-selective for top 0.5%, and some selective independents). At start of yr6, given levels and targets via individual meetings with head that were reinforced in parent/teachers a few weeks later.

Glad to say, apart from a week of mock Sats, its pretty much normal work for the all. So still getting to do History, Geography, Science and other non tested subjects.

OP I think Secondary board was a good choice for this post as there will be parents that have already been through primary system, but things have changed. DD1 is 6 years older, in that time the KS2 science hads been scrapped. May be worth an X-post in Primary?

Having just gone through the ridiculous process of the 11+ you really need to be a strong level 5 by the end of yr5 if you want to gave a good chance of getting into a grammar school. The exams are taken between October and January for the majority of these places...

Your child's work will not be routinely levelled, they will probably do an assessed piece of writing 3-4 times a year. Parents do seem to be far more obsessed with levels than they were even 5-10 years ago. At my school we only routinely tell parents the child's levels at the end of KS1 and KS2, although you can of course ask at any time.
Speaking to the teacher or their report will tell you how your child is doing, they may be working above, at, or below the level expected for their year group.

Maybe tween I am not convinced and the children I have to pass everyday are not a great ad for the school....its not something I would want for my children.

A special measures comp now might well be good/outstanding in 6 years time. It will be getting a lot of attention.

And a grammar school that gets to cream off all the best children, may get what look like fantastic results, but might actually be quite poor considering the intake.

You don't need to move country, but maybe move county to Hants.

DD2's school has a great system of feedback, once a term we get a sheet that shows their NC level along with the expected level for a child in that year group.

It also has very specific targets for improvement for your child, some of dd2's from parents evening this week are

Record working for each stage of multi-step problems involving money
Choose words to create an effect on the audience
Use empathy to make judgements about a character

She's year 3 and a borderline level 4 ( they don't use the a,b and c) so these targets will help her progress to a secure level 4. It's much more informative than using letters to grade work.

Thanks so much Tween, am saving what you have written to keep going back to it until I understand it more.

yes we have a few grammers and some "failing" in special measures comps...that I would never want her to go too....the comps here are not an option for us, I would rather move country than see her go to one!

I feel very strongly about it and this is why I am worried now.

Thanks so much for your help...

Are you sure you have grammar schools in your area? (Only asking as you're obviously new to all this).

If you are lucky you'll live somewhere they don't and then they can just go to a comp and be top set of some subjects and bottom set of others.

Glad to be of help.

Now, to go back to your original question, 11+. For grammar, you would probably be looking for a child who reaches level 3 by the end of y2, and at least level 5 by the end of y6. But some children are late bloomers, some are precocious but then flatten off.

Your child is young, just encourage them to think learning is fun. What will be will be.

(Agree it's odd to find this in Secondary Education)
It seems to me you are asking how you will know how well your dc is doing at school ?
You will know because you are likely to have 3 Parents Evenings and One written report each year. If they were really struggling, you'd be contacted by the school sooner for a chat about that.

The National Curriculum levels (not really that new - Nat Curr was introduced around about 1989, from memory) will give you what an "average child, across the whole Country" should be able to do at the end of the Key Stages (ie, end of Infants, End of Juniors and end of Yr9 / 3rd Yr at secondary) as long as you are not in Scotland where everything is a bit different. Doesn't mean it's average for your school or your county though.
Relating to whether that means they are grammar school material or not is difficult for other people to say, as it is very area specific. Vast swathes of the Country don't have grammar schools.

• I don't care (much) how my DD is getting on compared to the rest of the class (they might be geniuses or really thick), so the national curriculum level lets me know where they are against a clear standard. This stops teachers saying 'DD is making really good progress' when in fact the NC level shows that yes this is the case but actually they are still 18 months behind expected levels

This is making more sense to me.

Are you saying the marks are the same then, just with a 1 added in front...

I'd say not really. TeenandTween has explained it a couple of posts up.

Basically from year 1 upwards they should be moving up through levels 1,2,3,4,5 etc. Each level is divided into 3 sublevels (a b & c) a being the highest and c the lowest. There are "expected levels" for each year group eg at the end of Year 2 most children are expected to achieve a 2b. (have another look at TeenandTween's post above.)

It's worth bearing in mind that children often don't make conveniently linear progress though! They plateau sometimes and then suddenly things come together and they shoot ahead.

Hope that helps? I'm not sure what year your dc is in - if you tell us I can tell you what kind of level they should be at?

With the 'old' system (I'm thinking in the days of O levels here) grades were all very well but they were relative marking. eg to get an A in O level maths you had to be in the top ?10% of those taking the exam. These days everyone who reaches a certain score gets an A (hence grade inflation but that's a whole new debate).

So when children were given A B C etc in schoolwork, was that an absolute level or just relative to their class / school norm? I don't care (much) how my DD is getting on compared to the rest of the class (they might be geniuses or really thick), so the national curriculum level lets me know where they are against a clear standard. This stops teachers saying 'DD is making really good progress' when in fact the NC level shows that yes this is the case but actually they are still 18 months behind expected levels.

As this is all news to you, I'm wondering is your child still in Reception (or lower?). The Early Years have their own scales which bear little resemblance to the later NC levels. DD2 scored an 8/9 against Physical Development in reception because she understood stuff like getting hot when she did exercise. The fact that she has very poor balance / motor skills was neither here nor there.

(This may be all by the by though, as I think the NC lsub levels are being done away with or something, And of course GCSEs are being changed from A-G to be 9-1 or something.)

Yes it helps a Little Fair...many thanks

I just feel overwhelmed now...oh well!

Are you saying the marks are the same then, just with a 1 added in front...

Sort of. The child has to consistently meet set targets to achieve the level. Once they can do this, they will work towards the next level. If a child is levelled at 1a, they should be working towards 2c.

They should improve two sub levels a year and never get a lower assessment. If the child does not consistently meet the set target, they cannot achieve that level, they need to keep trying until they do achieve it.

So, for example, your dd will not achieve level 2c unless she consistently uses appropriate punctuation in her writing. If she does it sometimes and not others, she will stay at 1a because she is not secure enough to achieve a 2c.

Hope that helps.

expected levels (approx) (at least they were before Gove started wanting everyone to get to level6)

end y1 1b
end y2 2b ---- this is end KS1
end y3 2a/3c
end y4 3b
end y5 3a/4c
endy6 4b ---- this is end KS2 & end primary

(ps this is a surreal conversation to be having on the Secondary board...)

i didnt know it would spiral into this, I didnt know about this marking!

I have issues understanding basic things like this, I knew where I was with the old system now I am at sea.

Yes will ask teacher.

I don't know Fair. I am so confused

Are you saying the marks are the same then, just with a 1 added in front...

So she writes a story the level at year 1 would only ever be a 1 and then she would get a b or c? a being the best?

Faire - I think she means if she were a B or a D.

You will get her actual levels for maths, reading, writing, speaking&listening, and science (maybe). Nothing else in primary.

You should also be given expected, below expected, above expected levels for the end of each year, so you can see how she is performing against national expectations. eg if at the end of y2 she is a 2c for writing that would be slightly below, but a 3 for maths at the same stage would be above.

You need to ask the teachers what to work on if she is struggling in something as they will know what. (Just as for GCSE French I know my DD is good at spoken but needs to work on accuracy of written work).

Don't get hung up on trying to push your child up the levels. See how they are getting on, see what if anything they struggle on and assist if needed.

(ps this is a surreal conversation to be having on the Secondary board...).

She comes as 1a, that is average its not specific..I dont know how low or high she is and what to work for?

If they said she was a grade C (average in the old system) how would that be any different?

You can get a clear picture of where she is by her level.

If she should be a 1a and she is a 1c, then she is working below average so you know she needs help.

If she is working at the expected level, then she is average and progressing as she should be - no need for concern.

No I mean if they told me she was those grades, I know exactly what they would mean...I would know she is weak in maths and doing well in elgish I understand that! And get a clear picture of where she is...

Ah, do you mean that she is in her first year of secondary school?

They would be expected to reach level 4 by the time they leave primary school, not year 1.

Why do you say she is B in English and D in Maths. Who told you that?