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Original poster

Why are comprehensive schools allowed to have selective Sixth Forms?

66 replies

Reincarnatedpig · 23/01/2014 11:18

This is really bugging me. DD is in year 10 at a comprehensive school with a banded admission procedure (all applicants take a test and places are awarded equally to each of the four ability bands). However the Sixth Form is a different story. They are now asking for all grades at GCSE to be B or above with A's in the proposed A level subjects. DD is dyslexic, she has sat 3 GCSEs so far with B's in all 3. She would like to do English A level but only got a B overall in English Language which she sat in Nov, she cannot resit (she will sit Lit in year 11). She got A/A* in the coursework but only a C in the exam. She is bright and in the top stream.

I just cannot understand why a comp is allowed to do this. They only offer A levels anyway. Surely someone with a B is capable of getting a reasonable grade at English A level. She wants to do fine art at college so grades are not that important overall but she would have liked to have stayed at her current school with her friends and there are no good alternatives.

OP posts:
baffledmum · 23/01/2014 21:38

When I went to Sixth Form in 1986 (gulp!) I had to have at least 6 "O" levels, grade C or above to get in. It's about being able to cope - I don't think league tables existed then.

creamteas · 23/01/2014 19:06

My DC's school has a fully comprehensive sixth form (although it does have a behavioral requirement).

But it restricts A levels to A/B GCSE candidates, those not getting them either to BTECs or GCSE resits.

Original poster
Reincarnatedpig · 23/01/2014 16:55

The school traditionally entered all pupils for English and maths in November of year 10 so they could have several goes. They abruptly pulled maths altogether and let only DD's class take English due to only the first attempt counting in league tables. This also meant the speaking and listening components the other kids had done went to waste.

DD was predicted an A as she had A/A* for the coursework. She tends to get very muddled and nervous in exams despite extra time. She missed the A by one mark. The paper has gone back for remarking. There is no guarantee she will get A in English Lit either.

She is also interested in psychology and wanted to do that but the school want the English A for that as well. She will definitely do Art and possibly drama - they have to take 4A2s. Thinking about it perhaps the school is not the best choice but other local schools not available to us and the local colleges seem to be full of people who don't really want to be there.

OP posts:
MillyMollyMama · 23/01/2014 16:17

Why do schools enter pupils who have learning difficulties early for exams and then restrict their future potential because they perform less well than expected? Children need all the teaching they can get. It disadvantages them if they do not get it. Also English A level is normally literature, not language. Therefor how she performs in English Lit should be the important result.

A 'B' grade at GCSE is sometimes not good enough for the rigors of A level and many pupils these days do get As at GCSE in their A level subjects. I am surprised that a comprehensive does not make alternative courses available for those who are not academic enough for A levels. Not a very comprehensive education in my view.

Starballbunny · 23/01/2014 15:59

My DD is in a similar position being a dyslexic and requiring a B in English for her preferred sixth form.

This seems very harsh she's a scientist, she doesn't want to do English at A'level or any essay based subject.

Her group did the two main CAs very early in Y10 (and DD1 has matured a lot since she was 14) and they spent time on speaking and listening that Gove has thrown in the bin Angry.

While I understand schools/collages being desperate to maintain their places in the league tables, I can't but wish they took individual DCs circumstances into account.

DD1 is lucky, her own school sixth form will take a C for English, so she has a fall back, but it's frustrating that they 'win' back a good scientist (who the head of science has treated appallingly) by not really pushing English CA marks.

stayathomegardener · 23/01/2014 15:20

What are your DD's A-level choices? Apart from English.

TalkinPeace · 23/01/2014 13:45

prh
indeed, they will leave school, but they will have to be in accredited training

here in Hampshire the more "vocational" colleges are expanding their courses for those who will work three days and study two
the academic colleges are pretty much unaffected

in school 6th form areas, colleges will have to pick up all of the slack but I wonder whether schools will be forced to loosen criteria for some subjects because of the changing requirements

prh47bridge · 23/01/2014 13:40

once the leaving age rises to 18 next year

The leaving age is not changing. There is a requirement for young people to receive some form of education or training but the relevant law (the Education and Skills Act 2008) is clear that the school leaving age will remain at 16.

curlew · 23/01/2014 13:15

Interesting. When the school leaving age was 16 it was a different thing, but now I would like to see how they justify it.

TalkinPeace · 23/01/2014 13:12

I'll be interested to see whether comps where there is no other local provision will be allowed to be generally selective once the leaving age rises to 18 next year

individual colleges will but in an area there has to be provision for everybody surely

diabolo · 23/01/2014 12:03

The Head of the local catholic high school boasts that he gets better results at 6th form than Eton and other famous public schools.

Parents all clap and whoop and pat themselves on the back.

Most of them don't realise that he only allows students with A or better at GCSE to do A Levels there and Eton is a little less selective.

Original poster
Reincarnatedpig · 23/01/2014 12:02

stayathomegardener, your dd sounds incredibly able and motivated! Yes getting stroppy sounds like a good idea!

I think DD's school want to up their position in the league tables hence the "selective" sixth form. They have also hinted that due to the popularity of the school, they may restrict entry to those with a minimum number of A's overall. I think it is outrageous that they can kick out the majority of their students out post GCSE. It is also the only non religious school in the area, so no chance of getting into another school and there are no good local colleges.

OP posts:
scaevola · 23/01/2014 11:58

The reason they can select is because education is non-statutory by that age (the recent change to require continuation in training isn't a straight raising of the school leaving age, so doesn't affect this).

stayathomegardener · 23/01/2014 11:53

I think on the basis she took it early and is Dyslexic I would be stating all this to the school in writing.

DD also year 10 and Dyslexic wants to take A levels in art based subjects(Photography,Textiles Media Studies and resit English) at local 6th form but needs academic subjects in B'S to get in.
She is qualified and has set up her own business in Photography/Photoshop which is giving her a great portfolio and they have agreed verbally that they will consider that. Which I have emailed in writing to confirm and received no response....which I take as confirmation .
Should this fail I will consult a solicitor on the grounds of discrimination-me stroppy? Oh yes (smile)

Original poster
Reincarnatedpig · 23/01/2014 11:41

There are no good alternatives around here, hence the problem.

I have done A level English Lit and my elder DD is doing it now so I am aware of the standard. I think DD2 is very able but due to dyslexia her performance in exams is a bit iffy. She also sat 18 months early.

I agree in respect of maths but I think refusing A level courses to anyone with less than an A is discriminatory in comprehensive schools.

OP posts:
cory · 23/01/2014 11:35

Sixth Forms are not so much about being in a particular school: it's about whether you can cope with that particular subject.

It's a big step up to A-levels and in some subjects it is probably perfectly reasonable to say that you are unlikely to cope well with the A-level unless you achieved a certain standard at GCSE.

Many colleges won't even take maths students who didn't get an A- the reason being that the work is hard even for straight A students. Dd and her friends who got A/A*s in English literature are finding the AS course very heavy going.

But if your dd does feel confident that she could cope, how about shopping around for different colleges who may have different views? This is a good time for moving on and making new friends.