ds's A Level choices drama rumbles on... help!

But the proportion of overseas undergraduates is rising. So relying on the UK demographic is not necessarily a good idea. The unconditional thing was a one off strategy by one Uni and it is aimed at getting high performing candidates who want a good insurance offer. In fact, from memory, to qualify, you had to be predicted three A grades.

I don't think that everyone has to get three A grades. Upthread the OP didn't specify where he was aiming, just he wants to do the best he can. But outside the three a grade territory, subject choice matters even more.

The thing is, the relevance of A levels doesn't end when you get that Uni offer. Employers look at a level subject choices too. That was one of the things I was trying to say- many graduates end up in a pickle because they didn't look beyond getting in to Uni when they were in sixth form.

Employers value maths and modern languages. They won't be as interested in music, philosophy or Latin except for certain niche jobs, so at the very least, he ought to have a careful think, especially as he doesn't actually want to do any of them all that much. If he is equally not fussed about doing a modern language, and he would get the same grade, he ought to think about that.

Someone has to work in media ATailof I suppose the main question is does he have any talent in that area or a definite goal in mind; or does he just watch a bit too much Glee/Xfactor

Sorry, I should have been clear that Performance Studies with More Studies On Top is precisely my son's plan for the next two years.

I think Unis will go back to looking for AAA where they can recruit.

There are roughly 12% fewer current 11 year olds than there are current 18 year olds. That is true over most of the EU. That continues a 19% drop in the number of 18 year olds over the past six years.

Source, ONS

There are 668200 11 year olds (born 2001-2), 754100 18 year olds (born 1994-5) and there are 927600 25 year olds (born 1987-8). That's a 28% drop for the cohort likely to go to university at 18 from 2006 to 2020. The current cohort applying at the moment is 19% smaller than the peak six years ago. This is why talk about small falls in application rates being somehow to do with student funding is such wild nonsense: anything which doesn't involve a 20% drop in numbers is a real increase in participation.

If university take-up remains constant as a proportion of the population, undergraduate courses reliant on home students (ie most of them, and in the humanities all of them) will experience a near-30% drop in potential students over the period 2006 to 2020. In fact there has been a swing towards STEM, so the humanities have two problems to face: fewer potential students, and they're less likely to be wanting to do arts and humanities anyway. Increasing participation involves lowering entry requirements, because there simply isn't a pool of people with AAB currently sat around as Neets.

Major courses at RG universities went into large scale clearing last year, for the first time in a generation, and almost all of the RG universities did for at least one course (there are exceptions you can count on one hand, all of them massive destinations for overseas engineering students who can be used to balance the books). Most announced that they would be in clearing before results day. At least one RG university issued an edict to accept all students who had been issued firm offers, irrespective of achieved A Levels. Adjustment, which is a sort of Waitrose clearing, has become a huge thing so that RG universities can say "we aren't in clearing but we still desperately need some more students, phone us anyway".

At least three RG universities massively undershot in 2012 and 2013, and several departments in STEM subjects at those universities were told to recruit pretty well anyone with a pulse, because they had least had applicants, in order to bolster overall university numbers. You can now get onto top 10 courses which in the prospectus are AAA with, in some circumstances, BBC. One RG university is routinely offering de facto unconditional offers in shortage subjects, subject to accepting them as a firm offer. They won't let you hold an unconditional as an insurance while holding your Oxbridge offer as firm; it remains to be seen how long UCAS will tolerate this bending of the rules. I suspect that in this cycle this procedure will become more common at other universities once they cotton on.

There are always trendy courses of the moment at trendy universities of the moment, there's always pressure on Oxbridge and as medicine is gated by the NHS's willingness to fund FT1 places the numbers are artificially constrained. So some individual courses may be able to keep offers high. But the idea that there will be any sort of widespread increase in offers in the current and next round (I have a child in the current round, and know what offers look like compared to last year) is pretty implausible. There simply aren't the qualified applicants.

Lainie, just be bloody thankful that yours isn't adamant he's going to do drama studies, theatre studies and, ooh, let's see, media studies.

God I'd give my right arm for a bit of music, Latin or English in that lot.

And as for the assumption that it's not worth taking any subject that might drop below an A... You do know that around 10 to 20%, maybe 30%, typically get an A or above in each subject? Are all of the others wasting their time?

And since the autumn statement yesterday, the goalposts have shifted again. It used to be the case that AAB was especially valuable to all Unis apart from Oxbridge, because those students were not controlled - you could recruit as many as you want with no penalty (normally you get fined if you take too many, as the government is worried about the cost of the student loan book).

But yesterday they said they will abolish all student number controls from the year after next- when this kid will be going. So AAB is nothing special now compared with ABB, and I think Unis will go back to looking for AAA where they can recruit.

I think this is a very interesting question.

The OP has given her view up thread-it's a shame to have to play the A* game, education ought to be about wider cultural things. I can absolutely see that, when they are younger, but for me, it ends at GCSE.

I guess from my perspective, I see it as more important that they can, at age 21, leave Uni and then use their creativity to think, what shall I do with my life, where shall I go? And sadly, too often what we see is graduates who can't make any such choices, because they have done uncompetitive subjects for A level and degree, and they are stuck.

I see a bigger picture perhaps, as I work in a university myself and have seen generations of students come and go, plus my own children and their friends are now early 20s.

My advice would be unwelcome, I think, to the kid in question. I think he has two options:

He takes essentially two A levels- English and history- plus a third placefiller. Of the three subjects he has in mind, any would do really, as long as he is confident of getting straight As in all three. So , make a pragmatic choice of the best taught and easiest subject, and for goodness sake don't do them all.

Or he can upgrade and do English and History, plus a modern language, if he wants a humanities degree, or plus maths, if he wants social sciences, or plus both, if he doesn't know what he wants. That would take him much further, and would be my advice, but it will also be more work and more risk.

In the end, it's all about delayed gratification. I enjoyed my music A levels- but I did three other competitive subjects as well. Music was just for fun. And it was the other three that got me my Uni place; and it was qualifying after Uni as an accountant that got me my job, combined with the languages. Music has stayed a much loved hobby.

As will a kid with clear strengths and interest in essay subjects switching to maths and science Are you living in the 1950's mini?

I'm not really sure if it should be up to him what he studies at A level - it should be UP TO YOU

Yeah, that'll end well.

MiniMonty - universities do not "discount" philosophy A level. My dd is applying with it as one of three A2s, and is receiving offers including philosophy. We discussed at a couple of university open days whether to drop it or history after AS for the course she wanted, and they were both seen as useful but not essential for her course. Many arts and humanities courses only have one, or sometimes no, required A levels - that does not mean the ones that are not specified are discounted. If you look at the UCAS site, there are very few courses where A levels that are not widely available are required, rightly so.

OP, if the university aspect matters to your ds, do check the UCAS website directly. You can search on any course, it will list all the institutions that provide it, and you can check the requirements directly - do not believe anything else!. You can also check on university websites. From our recent research, agree with those that say any of his three will be fine, and plenty of doors are opened by Eng Lit and History if he doesn't like MFL - the main thing will be to get good grades and enjoy the course.

Music is NOT an easy A level; - it's a beast and unless you DS is well inspired (or gifted) a B/C is the best to hope for.
Philosophy is not a required A level for ANY UNIVERSITY COURSE (even including philosophy) and most universities will simply discount it at A level. You can't sensibly study philosophy between 16 and 18. It's a nonsense.

What he "enjoys" is really not the point... What is about is to set him up to hopefully achieve a chance of a fulfilling and successful life - this is the point and I'm not really sure if it should be up to him what he studies at A level - it should be UP TO YOU !

Given the advertised mix of Eng lit, Music, philosophy, Latin and History it sounds very much like you are breeding an art critic. That famously well paid job... NOT.

Surely he's doing Maths at GCSE, Surely he's doing some sciences - knock some sense into the boy and talk about the real world...

Music, philosophy and Latin - hmmmm... three years of uni studying grooviness (plus marijuana, wine women and song), plus a fantasy of making a living after uni (when he will move back in with you) and then stack shelves (while living with you) then marry a girl who stacks shelves.

Music, Latin and Philosophy - oh please - unless you are billionaires, take this a bit more seriously...

how much did he enjoy music in his gcse class so far? that should be good indication. Did he like the look of pieces in a level board recommendations? Does he like the composition part?

hard to tell how easy philosophy would be for him
did he do any any reading

during our recent 6th form visit philosophy teacher suggested the following books to understand what the subject is about:

Robinson, Dave "Introducing Descartes"
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1840460636

Blackburn, Simon "Think: A Compelling Introduction to Philosophy"
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0192854259

Action Philosophers!: The Lives and Thoughts of History's A-List Brain Trust: The More-Than-Complete Edition
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0977832937/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can only assume he loves essay writing as this would be his third essay writing subject.

Yes, I went when I was 12 and left at 15 to do my O levels.

I actually think that music a level is really only doable by kids that have music as their big hobby. I don't think you can learn it all in two years like maths or history. It's a funny one.

I get the Impression from the OP that the kid doesn't actually want to do any of the three subjects all that much. In which case, if she can't persuade him to change to a modern language, which he might also hate but would be more competitive and useful, I would say be cynical, do the one that is least work for him and aim for those three A grades.

Ah I can see how it was easy for you beast if you'd been at music college that long already. Sorry, it sounded like you thought the whole thing was a piece of cake for everyone!

OP he should just do why he enjoys most. I did English lit because I thought I needed it for the spread of subjects. I absolutely hated it and didn't do nearly as well as I could have done in a subject I loved.

Nom, the thing is, I did the old double music A levels which I don't think they still offer- so of my 5 A levels, two were music: Practical Music and Theoretical Music. Practical Music a level had papers ln the performance of your main instrument. so, for instance, we had to plan a recital and why we had chosen that programme, and write on how our instrument had changed physically over the years and what that meant for performance. All of that was dead easy. Plus we had to write a Bach chorale, a Schubert song, a Haydn quartet, etc etc all of which was just a matter of remembering one you knew and fiddling with it a bit. and the aural dictation test was also easy if you had spent long enough performing. Then there was the Big White Book which was about 30 excerpts, and in the exam you got three or four and had to compare them. Again, piece of piss because you were actually given a new copy of the white book in the exam, so no need to memorise the music. Analysis was not hard for me having spent so long at quite a hardcore college.

True, I did need to do a bit of work on my set works and music history, in the Theoretical Music a level, but even then i knew quite a lot of music history, as in, i had performed most of the famous pieces anyway by then. it was still way less work than I needed to do on my other A levels. And it was almost exactly the same thing- learn your set works and write essays analysing them- the works were in English, French, German or Music but the task was exactly the same.

But the question is, will it be relatively easy and stress free for the OPs DC, and help him cash in three grade As ? Only she knows that, but there's a good chance it will be.

this school isnt in Hampshire , is it?

and tbh if each pupil brings 4.5k in income then they let them do what they like

the idea that there is a CHRISTMAS deadline is, frankly , ludicrous.

jsut shove any thing down then change when you get results

DO WHAT HE LIKES DOING
i have just been with some year 12 students and the ones who are happy are those who did what they find interesting not what they thought they should do

I didn't find that practical or theory G8s helped with the analysis bit. Performance was fine, Bach chorales a piece of cake, composition not too dusty but the music history/analysis meant it wasn't a freebie. Nor did College help much.

I am 20 years younger than you I reckon and I don't think the syllabus has changed in between significantly although it will always depend on the board.

Super, for me it was, as I had been at music college from the age of 12 and by 15 I had grade 8 in theory and three different instruments. I wasn't suggesting it would be a freebie for everyone.

And yes, I did double A level and it was actually a lot more difficult than it is today, sorry.

Beastofburden have you seen an A level Music syllabus recently?! Hardly a 'freebie'!!

DS is in yr 13 studying history philosophy gov & pol and eco. Philosophy is hard although DS did get very very high UMS for AS ;-) But it is by no means an easy option, essay heavy, a lot of extra reading, he loves it but it is a small class and a few dropped out as they found it too hard. Cant comment on either music or Latin. He has offers from a number of RG unis, still waiting to hear about the others.

I wish I knew! I still remember being gently told at degree level that I shouldn't choose a Philosophy based module as one of my third year options as I wouldn't cope with it. I find it difficult to deal in abstract ideas, if that helps! Maybe get him to read some bits of the philosophers they study at A Level in advance to see what he thinks of them and the ideas they're exploring?

Lainie, if he wants to keep his options as open as possible, then:

Humanities- English, history, modern languages if possible, if not, any of those three, whichever will get him the best grade for all three.

Social sciences- English, history, maths if possible, if not, philosophy.

Good luck!