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DS has been an idiot - plagiarism. What is the likely outcome?

60 replies

fumps · 28/11/2013 20:40

DS's coursework for an A'level standard qualification has been sent back to the school because he plagiarised work from another student in one of the modules.

He has 'fessed up to copying from a memory stick given to him by the other pupil (who is also in trouble for handing over his work), and his school has to submit a report to the examining board.

It was an incredibly stupid thing to do, and looking at the exam board website, he risks a range of penalties which go as far as not letting him sit any more exams.

He's predicted AAB in the 3 other subjects at A2 and in his defence was suffering a range of legitimate pressures at the time including his own long-standing disability, recovering from another short-term but serious illness and bereavement - he looked for a shortcut to get the coursework done rather than talk to his teachers or even us, his parents, about relieving the pressure.

I hope the school will reflect that in their report - they know he's been depressed and is having treatment - but does anyone here (especially anyone working for an examining body) have idea what the likely penalty might be in reality?

The plagiarised work represents a section of about a sixth of the overall qualification. My hope is that he will be awarded 0 for that section and be allowed to re-do it, but that might be over-optimistic.

The only positive is that he has learned this lesson now, not at university or A2 (if he can now get that far).

OP posts:
Lionessnurturingcubs · 30/11/2013 23:20

Fumps don't beat yourself up about it, I am sure you were doing everything you could and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Good luck with it all. This thread is a fine example of how easily mistakes can be made. Wink bangs head against wall

fumps · 30/11/2013 21:19

He doesn't have diabetes, but was under pressure for all the reasons listed in my OP, including a physical disability which the school were officially made aware of, but which probably teachers weren't as well informed as they might be about it. it's not a visible disability unless you happen to know about the condition itself - I don't want to say what it is as it may identify him as it's quite rare.

The pressure on him mounted throughout the year until he cracked, and is now having treatment for his mental health issues. This was before the plagiarism came to light.

I'm grateful for the advice and support I've had from some of you here. We probably won't see a solicitor - I'm articulate and used to constructing arguments in my job. I think any background to the circumstances should come from the school and ds in the first place - but we do need to find out more about the process. It all came as a shock last week, to everyone involved.

He has apologised profusely to the other pupil who gave him the work on a memory stick - the least he can do.

My concern is for ds's health and well being in the first place, but I hope we can help him put a decent explanation forward - he has had a lot to deal with, and when I started writing it down I felt guilty we hadn't supported him better.

OP posts:
Oblomov · 30/11/2013 20:47

I have diabetes. And whether you are low or high, is irrelevant to the conscious decision to plagiarise.

Alanna1 · 30/11/2013 18:57

Lioness and OP, I probably wouldn't tell the school I was speaking to a solicitor, and I probably wouldn't want the solicitor to write (creates wrong impression). But I'd use one for knowledge, advice, tone, and especially getting an expert, if the evidence is there and it sounds like it could be, to write the right sort of report to help do my damnedest to dig my child out of the hole he'd got himself in. A mental health report saying that was probably caused by inadequate support of a clinically depressed student responding to elevated stress could do wonders to stop it going further and could seriously minimise the penalty. But it takes time, effort, knowledge to get the right person. That's what a good solicitor should do.

Vivacia · 30/11/2013 18:46

I think somebody said that the student has diabetes, and that effected his judgement so that he cheated?

Vivacia · 30/11/2013 18:45

Lion yes, reading back I misunderstood what you said. My point was that mentioning it on a reply slip for a trip is not the same as ensuring the school are informed about a condition or need that they need to take account for. I was making the point that the OP had in fact ensured the school were informed, had SEN meetings and/or a Statement etc. I thought you were saying that the onus was not on her to do this, but that the school had a legal duty to find out for themselves. What was your point?

Lionessnurturingcubs · 30/11/2013 18:10

Fumps - Alanna has given some good advice, but personally I would avoid a solicitor at this stage.
I would make a chronological list of every appointment, day off school etc due to medical reasons. Then ask the school what reasonable adjustments they put in place, ie extra time to complete coursework, given the work he had missed etc. If you have had any discussions with the school in the past re his illness and how it affects him, add that to your list.
Then make your appeal against whatever decision based on that - if you have the facts listed, it is difficult to dispute. I would be doing exactly the same as you letting him know it is wrong, maybe even get him to write an apology letter explaining how he felt at the time.
And I know parenting a child with a disability is never easy. When it is an "invisible" one it is doubly hard. No-one would ask a child in a wheelchair to get out and walk, yet effectively children with disabilities that affect their mental capacity are expected to do the same as their peers. They simply can't. It is very sad that despite the laws in place, schools are unable to recognise that.

Lionessnurturingcubs · 30/11/2013 17:59

Vivacia - Nobody has said schools have a duty to test for unknown physical disabilities; they do not. The OP has stated that the school were aware of his disability and therefore once a disability is declared, they have a legal obligation to make and anticipate reasonable adjustments to help support the young people. If the YP had been given extra time, for example, to complete his coursework, he may not have had to resort to cheating.

Alanna1 · 30/11/2013 16:57

Can I suggest you go to a solicitor and get an expert report through the solicitor (which means you will have some help in the instructions to the expert and the report is privileged, plus the solicitor will help you find an appropriate expert, and make sure the tone is important?). I think you want evidence from a medical mental health expert as to how his depression impacted his judgment and how he was not being adequately supported, and how the other factors you identify interplayed. If your son is being treated by a supportive consultant at the hospital this could also work, but I'd probably also try the solicitor route. I'd look for a solicitor who does education and mental health law. The mental health charities may be able to help point you in the direction of a competent firm. The solicitor can help you talk through what else your son might be able to do to help himself e.g. apologise in writing, and also whether e.g. It might be open to your son to sit the subject paper with another exam board or to withdraw from the paper or whatever else are his wider options.

fumps · 30/11/2013 15:27

Thank you for the support Lionness.

Parenting a child with a disability hasn't been easy, and I feel guilty for not recognising sooner how much it was damaging his self esteem and causing his low mood.

It doesn't escape the fact that what he has done was wrong, but, as it would in the analogies you quote, offer some mitigation when it comes to 'sentencing', to continue the analogy.

I will talk to his teachers to find out how they plan to address that in their report to the exam board, and ask to see their submission. If I and my husband aren't satisfied with that, we can look into whether we can submit evidence of his condition separately.

I don't expect him to be let off the hook - that would be wrong - but I do want the exam board to be in possession of the circumstances surrounding what happened.

OP posts:
Vivacia · 30/11/2013 14:41

How often do they test, and how?

Vivacia · 30/11/2013 14:40

Apologies Lion I did not know that the school have a duty to test all pupils for unknown physical disabilities. I thought they tested for learning difficulties and in response to parents' or teachers' concerns.

Lionessnurturingcubs · 30/11/2013 14:33

Sweeping statements casting blame simply show a lack of understanding of disability, what it can do to a person and the reason why we have the Equality Act 2010 in this country and in particular the Public sector equality duty for schools. How does anyone know for example "his disability doesn't prevent him from knowing right from wrong."? My son has diabetes, and if his blood sugar is too high or low it affects the cognitive part of the brain. Depression is a mental health issue, so could quite easily prevent him from knowing right from wrong. People have been let off in court for much worse crimes due to depression. An act of plagiarism, whilst against the rules, is hardly life threatening and it is preferable that something like this happens to ensure that HE does get the support he needs in the future.
Vivacia - Public Sector Equality Duty is 100% a school's responsibility and 100% the law. We should be addressing the fact that many, many schools in this country are NOT abiding by the law and by not doing so are failing otherwise capable young people. It is that that needs addressing rather than casting blame on a young person who quite frankly has enough to deal with.
Disabled children deserve to have the law applied properly in schools. If it is not, then the school is 100% to blame for the consequences.

Vivacia · 30/11/2013 11:30

He basically stole something, that's what plagiarism is, theft.

And signed his name to say he hadn't. Nobody wants this to effect his education in the future, but I think it's serious and 100% the boy's responsibility.

Blissx · 30/11/2013 09:53

I can't help but also feel sorry for the other student who handed over his memory stick to help your child out. A very stupid thing to do but did he know your DS would copy his work, word for word? He may also be disqualified for this qualification and it was his own work and a thought must be spared for him too. What 'mitigating circumstances' can this boy plead? Plagiarism affects so many people and this is a sad situation all round.

sashh · 30/11/2013 09:28

He was still daft to do what he did though, but there is considerable mitigation.

Sorry but I don't think there is any mitigation.

He basically stole something, that's what plagiarism is, theft.

Also this is not just about your child, although obviously and rightly for you it is.

The school could be stopped from entering any students for exams with this exam board.

Yes that is unlikely for a single piece of plagiarism to which a student has admitted but that is how serious this is

Vivacia · 30/11/2013 08:29

every consent form for school trips as well as their central record

But have you had contact with the SEN provision? Does he have a statement or whatever the equivalent is now?

fumps · 30/11/2013 07:54

Believe me, he has the message loud and clear that what he did was wrong. I have used many words to describe it, and have certainly not trivialised it with him. I want to keep it in perspective though - he is depressed but seems to be pulling out of that, with help.

However, I will, discreetly, look into the disability issue and ask him what allowances the school has made for coursework deadlines because of the amount of time his has missed.

This was a child under a lot of pressure. He has to face the consequences of course, but there are mitigating circumstances which I laid out in my OP, and I have asked the school to include those in their report to the examining board.

The fact I had to spell the name of his physical (but not visible) disability in the school meeting I attended with him did not indicate to me that it's been at the front of their minds, despite many communications with the disability written down - e.g every consent form for school trips as well as their central record.

OP posts:
strugglinginsilence · 30/11/2013 04:37

I hate to say this but it does not appear that his disability prevents him from knowing right from wrong. I am not saying his situation shouldn't have entitled him to much more support but sometimes young people just need to take it on the chin. 'You did the wrong thing, take the consequences, move on and don't do it again!' I think by calling it 'daft' you are trivializing it too much.You need to send the message that it was wrong but sometimes good people do wrong things because they are upset so next time you feel like that talk to someone first.

I hope he continue s to do well in his other exams.

fumps · 30/11/2013 00:03

Thanks Lionness. I will contact the service and take advice after checking with ds what adjustments they have made for catching up.

I suspect not much - I seem to have had constant new conversations with various staff over the years who clearly had no idea about his disability despite my telling the school numerous times.

He was still daft to do what he did though, but there is considerable mitigation.

OP posts:
Lionessnurturingcubs · 29/11/2013 23:54

Then I would urge you to contact the Equality Advisory Service as they should be able to assist.
Did the school give him extra time, provide him with the work he had missed due to appointments etc. as that is going to be key to whole thing?
There must be a process that allows you to appeal the decision, and I would definitely be doing that on the grounds of disability and no reasonable adjustments (if there weren't) made. Good luck with it all.

fumps · 29/11/2013 23:22

Yes, they knew of his disability. The main impact is the amount of time he needs off for medical appointments, which does mean he had extra catching up to do.

He has recently been diagnosed with a slight learning disability which means he gets more time in exams, but this wasn't known at the time of the coursework. It is part of the explanation why he felt so under pressure.

OP posts:
Lionessnurturingcubs · 29/11/2013 23:11

Fumps - were the school aware of your son's disability? If they were, did they make any reasonable adjustments for him to do the coursework, ie. extra time?
If the school were aware of his disability then under the Equality Act 2010 they have a duty to make reasonable adjustments and they have to anticipate the reasonable adjustments required. So if they were aware of his disability but did not make any reasonable adjustment, then they have failed under the Public Sector Equality Duty. You should speak to EASS - Equality Advisory Service.com - they offer really good advice.
If someone has a disability it absolutely is a school's fault if they don't assist. Young people should not be failing due to a school's inability to comprehend and implement the law.
Hope your son is doing better.

Vivacia · 29/11/2013 22:10

I feel very strongly that it's not the school's fault. They should take steps to not facilitate plagiarism, but it's the student's responsibility and moral obligation not to cheat.

fumps · 29/11/2013 21:40

Northernlurker - Who says I (or he) is blaming the school? We're not - entirely his fault and he'll be going to eat a big slice of humble pie with his teachers and the other pupil. I'd be furious if I was the other pupil's parent.

But, it won't reflect well on the school, will it? And he needs to apologise to them for that.

OP posts: