Shocked by what came home with ds1 today.....

NotAnOtter - any comeback on this at school? Meant to ask ages ago ...

I assume that this must be some really weird private school. They obviously do not care a damm about the emotional welfare of their children. The children at the top could get bullied as easily as the children at the bottom.

Class position does not tell you a lot about how a child is doing unless you have some information about what the cohort can do. State schools use national curriculum levels because they give some indication of how children are doing against the national average. For example a year 7 child who achieved a level 3 is doing badly, a level 4 is average, level 5 would be doing a well, a child who achieved level 6 is gifted. A child who comes bottom of the class at selective school might be level 5 material and child who comes top of a class at a really weak school might not be doing as well as you think.

I would query with the school how you son got hold of this list. I find it unbelievable that a school would give out such a list. Most teachers like children.

By the way, it's my typong, not my spelling wot is crap innit.

I'm a secondary school teacher - this is bizarre! Never come across it before in 14 year's worth of teaching. This is the sort of info a subject teacher would have in their planner, definately for "our eyes onl!" Write to the Head and voice your concerns.

And it isn't just touchy feely, bunny hugging stuff either.

Educational studies have shown that children make least progress if they are given a mark or grade compared to those who are given constructive comments. Children who are given comments and a mark/ grade do almost as badly as those given marks alsone, since they concentrate of the grade and ignore the comment

Far better that children get told

'Your understanding of X is good. You are confused over Y. To improve, you need to read over your notes and complete the homework task I have set for you'

Than

You got 5/10

Shocking. Not every child is academic. Not every child who works hard can get high grades. If a school is prepared to take such drastic steps to foster academic competition amongst their students, then I would seriously consider whether the ethos of that school is the right one, esp if I felt my child was struggling.

Agree with Becky that it will not come as a surprise to the children who came 'top' etc.

We don't give grades or marks to the kids....when we brought this is it drove them *nurs, as all they want to know is where they can in a test/ h/w compared to their mates. Even though we don't give grades all the kids I teach can tell you to 10% where they stand in the class rankings

It does sound odd.

But...

The rankings will surely not come as a shock to the children? IME, they have a pretty good idea of the pecking order within a class. Not just where they are, but where everyone else is too. Obviously not so nice for the parents of any child performing below their parents' hopes and expectations, but I do think the parents are more likely to be distressed by this than the children.

Ranking according to effort seems dodgy. Quantifying a qualitative judgement. Hmmm....

Appalling. Did it turn out to be a mistake, notanotter?

I think it's shocking. In my brother's school they used to get class places on their reports (3/25 or whatever) and grades for effort/attainment, but never anybody else's grades. My school never did any of this 'ranking', thank goodness.

I don't much like sports day, but do think it's a bit different. You know you're just seeing a snapshot of sporting performance, and besides winners and last placers, no-one really notices where all the others finish. But for grades for effort and attainment all year in all subjects to be scrutinised by everyone else is appalling.

It must be a private school? Did everyone have or did he pick it up off the photocopier?

the difference is everyone can see the results on sports day

I totally agree with you soupdragon, competition is healthy. Children do need to learn that they won't always win or be the best, but as you say this is a totally different thing. I would complain, I have let my dds school kmow that I don't agree with the reading out of results and am waiting for some feedback.

I'm fairly sure this is illegal under the Data Protection Act. Each child's parent would have had to give permission for their result to be in the public domain - presumably no-one has given permission? I'd go in guns ablazing!

Competition is healthy.

But this isn't really competition as such, it's having something rammed down your throat. If, for example, sports day is handled properly it doesn't single out individual losers and winners - both my primary and secondary sports days were house competitions. Yes, there were individual winners/losers in a race but the only prize was for the winning house. Competition without making a huge deal of winning/losing individually.

Coming home with something like the other children's school reports is just wrong.

Maths is truly competitive in dd's set. They are told in front of everyone their marks and obviously someone has the lowest mark, usually my dd. This time when they gave out the sats results she was sitting there absolutely terrified (her surname is 3rd from last in the register) for ages hearin all the others getting 8s and 7s and eventually the teacher got to her and said "F... you got a 7". The girls in the set do compete even at this to beat each other and getting really stroppy when others get higher than they do. I think it is unhealthy.

you shouldnt compare the two.

the likley hood of running fast getting you a decent job is quite slim although there are some jobs am sure.

sports is competetive.

the day was structured badly with fuckwit teachers not thinking it through properly enough to give less abled children more encouragement to enjoy sport even if they are not goood at it.

maths on the other hand is not competetive - one child is not competing againt the other - they are supposed to be doing as best as they are able.

if one child is not as able as the other then this serves to do nothing than to humiliate the child.

this serves no purpose and i would be royally fucked off

Why is everyone so horrified by this and not all by my poor little 5yr olds humiliated on sports day?
I also think this is shocking!

sorry to harp on but in sport's day surely you can see who comes last or whatever.
so I don't really see the difference.

The school I work in gives the mark in the exam result. We also give grades for attitude to work and if the child is makeing the expected progress. We never give position in class, to either the child or the parent.....let alone the position of other children.

Very odd.

My kids school give the child's result and the class average, grades for effort and attainment and nothing else.