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Original poster

Really Concerned with A Level Choices - Help.

34 replies

urbancupcake · 30/10/2013 12:19

I met up with my nephew yesterday and was talking about his A Levels choices. My sister was very secretive about the GCSE results he didn't quite get the right grades for in order to do his original choice for 6th Form and so it was difficult for me to get involved.

It now transpires he's doing Biology, which he wants to do at Uni, as well as from memory, philosophy, RS, ICT I think and possibly Technology which he plans to drop (I appreciate I may have listed one too many).

The problem is however, from my research, if he wants to study Biology in one of the Russel groups Uni's, he should have done Chemistry.

Now I'm not sure if he's grade for Chemistry was too low to do it, I will find out. In any case, am I right by saying that he doesn't stand a hope in hell getting into a Russell Group Uni without chemistry? This would be tragic as I know he loves the subject dearly.

I asked him who advised him about what subjects to take and he said no one. He just did what he enjoyed and got decent grades in. Do schools generally do this, as in, just leave it to the student to pick a stupid combination of topics without any guidance???!!!!

If I found out he did get a decent enough grade in Chemistry, could I suggest his parents meet with the school and get him to switch course?

His best friend, who I know is academically brighter, seems to be doing the right thing and studying for his A levels, Maths, Economics, History and another traditional topic, but his Father is an academic himself, so could have guided him more wisely.

Or, am I worrying too much?

OP posts:
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Original poster
urbancupcake · 01/11/2013 16:41

Silly me, when I posted my last reply I wasn't on the last page of the posts and so missed a couple of vital ones, like employment prospects decreasing the lower down the table things went, but also some sound advice like from @Happilyconfused as to, yes he flunked it but what do we do now?

@titcy - in all honesty he did rattle off a couple of subjects that he said was basically an RS. My mind went into overdrive after he said Biology as I was waiting to hear him say some of the more traditional subjects, but they never came. Based on Happilyconfused's and apples's advice I'm going to go back to him again with some further options and clarify exactly what happened to chemistry.

OP posts:
titchy · 01/11/2013 14:41

I really don't think RS and Ethics are two separate A Levels, in which case he needs a third. If they are two they may not be treated that way by universities as they are so similar.

Original poster
urbancupcake · 01/11/2013 14:31

Apologies for late reply. Anyway update:

a) The reason I'm meddling in my nephews affairs is because he is just that, my nephew. How bothered you'd be about your own nephew/nieces future I suspect would be down to the dynamics of your own individual families. The dynamic within my own family means that I care for his future a great deal and would consider myself somewhat selfish to have certain knowledge and not share it with them, especially if after speaking to fellow mumsnetters, there was a way of rescuing the situation or at least managing their expectations in a nice way.

b) Based on the feedback I received, I was able to to exactly that - not worry about all this 'Russel Group Uni thing (phew). Among my mummy mates that's all they go on about, so it was brill to come on here and feel reassured that it all is still okay.

c) Isn't best to manage his expectations now about the reality of studying Biology at uni than a few years from now? Who knows, he now even think about an alternative subject. Another question mind, if he had Biology, RS and Philosophy, would they be deemed 3 decent A levels?

d) When my sister, who is not an academic, was being a bit evasive about his scores, I knew she was probably feeling a bit embarrassed that he flunked a couple of the key subjects like Maths. Outside of our world it may come as a shock that they're are parents who generally want there children to do well, but not realise there are 'smart choices.' For GCSE options, from reading posts on here, I get the impression that schools don't always do what's in the best interest of the child, but more the school. There are parents out there who'd be shocked by that and who trust the schools without question. She'd be one of them. I appreciate though in this instance, he may well have been advised appropriately.

e) On a positive note, based on the feedback I received from here, which I'm incredibly grateful for, I sent him an email with a separate one to his parents. It outlined possible choices within RG, links for careers, checking if school will allow Chemistry next year to open up his choices and great alternative uni's too.

f) Received an email back from sister thanking me loads and loads for taking all this time out for her son.

And so big thanks to you all too guys.

OP posts:
DifferenceEngine · 01/11/2013 14:02

The thing with RG universities is that they are research universities. I went to a RG uni (clue in the username) and I have since done courses at non RG universities. I do think the research element can distract the institution, whereas the non RG uni was 100 % teaching focused. Much better student experience.

happilyconfused · 01/11/2013 13:53
  1. Continue and do a degree with a Foundation year for those students who do not have right grades or A level subjects
happilyconfused · 01/11/2013 13:50

Reading between the lines he has not got the grades to do A level Chemistry or A level Maths. This means the school put him onto subjects where he did meet the criteria. If the boy was that keen to do another science and/or maths then he should have gone to another sixth form or college. There is no point going in all guns blazing now as I doubt very much the Director of Sixth Form Studies would see you especially if he has not achieved the grades. Schools will have done their initial assessments to check students suitability for courses. The options are 1. improve GCSE grade and do an AS pickup next year, 2. Move to another sixth form next year. 3. Continue but he needs to research the sort of course he really wants to do and not just the course he thinks his family wants him to do.

cricketballs · 01/11/2013 09:11

cory - I can always tell which parents are MN's at school Grin

cory · 01/11/2013 08:42

I think we sometimes need to remind ourselves that not everybody who does not attend a Russell Group university walks straight into a life of unemployment and living in a cardboard box. If that were the case, unemployment figures would be far, far higher than they are.

applebread · 01/11/2013 08:34

It's probably not too late to change. I switched from economics a level to chemistry at this point in y12 and never looked back. Just tell your nephew that sone courses require chemistry and it might be worth him considering it.

Shootingatpigeons · 31/10/2013 21:27

It is true that both the RG and 1994 groups are lobbying groups and there are absolutely no criteria related to quality required for being a member but both Bath and Surrey do feature at the top of the general and subject tables along with most of the RG and 1994 group unis. If you look at the subject tables for biological sciences www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=Biological+Sciences Bath is at number 11 and Surrey at number 18 and both require at least two Sciences at A level.

Once you start to get further down the tables employment prospects do generally go down.

However the issue is not so much whether two Sciences are required as whether you could do well and get the most out of a Biology course without them. There is a reason that the universities best rated for Biology require more than one Science A level.

happilyconfused · 31/10/2013 21:05

No one in charge of a Sixth Form is going to allow a course change now - they have done 7 weeks.

Just because you go to an RG university does not guarantee employment. Lots of unis have great employment prospects and are non RG eg Bath, Surrey. Titchy & Throck have made good points

intitgrand · 31/10/2013 19:36

Ok well just looked at our nearest RG Uni- Leeds and he can get in there without chemistry

Shootingatpigeons · 31/10/2013 19:28

My DD is studying Natural Sciences at uni specialising in cell biology and genetics. She makes considerable use of both her Maths and Chemistry interpreting the results of experiments, understanding the boiochemistry of cells etc., let alone all the cutting edge stuff that is currently straddling the rather false disciplinary boundaries between the Sciences, biohacking, synthetic biology etc. Unis may accept a candidate without other Sciences and Maths at A level but whether they will then be equipped to get the most out of the course is another matter......

And are not Philosophy and RS very close in their scope. Understanding ethics is actually very important for Scientists but what my DD studies in her Philopsophy A level is basically the philosophy and ethics of religions.

Still the whole point of biohacking is to make Science accessible to everyone so perhaps your nephew will be able to learn in his garage what he has missed out on at school and uni.......

By the way I am not a Scientist, just on the receiving end of a lot of enthusiastic briefing, so I apologise if I have not got the proper gist of it!

I agree you shouldn't intervene but getting a few conversations going over an edition of New Scientist wouldn't do any harm (and a subscription might be a good chrissy present )

mumeeee · 31/10/2013 13:36

OP I agree that you need to leave your sister and nephew to sort he's own A level and uni choices out. There are a lot of good umiversities that and RG. Also it's important that a young person goes to a uni that suits them best, I would. have been very annoyed if one of my siblings had interfered with my DDs choices, my youngest has just started uni.

throckenholt · 31/10/2013 09:28

There are plenty of great departments out there that are not in Russell Group University - far better to look at the ranking of the department than the overall university.

Of the top 20 ranked biological sciences courses for 2013, 5 are at non-RG unis - Lancster, Bath, Leicester, Surrey, UEA - all good reputation universities.

I would have thought the lack of chemistry is going to be his biggest stumbling block because the overlap is huge. But no reason why he can't keep up his interest in biochemistry himself - if he really wants to make a career in biology. It is a harder route than taking the a-level route but possible.

In answer to your question Or, am I worrying too much? - um - yes - probably - he is not your responsibilty. I would wonder about why he got no relevant career advice though.

lljkk · 31/10/2013 09:11

Sticky beak out, OP!! Sheesh.
(Oh the tragedy he might not go to RG, sob sob...)

givemeaclue · 31/10/2013 09:05

Op I also think your sister will not appreciate you meddling in this. Especially as half a term of sixth form has already gone by.

givemeaclue · 31/10/2013 09:03

Why are people so hung up on Russell group?

Seriously, it is a consortium of a small group of unis. There are many other great unis not part of that group.

I say this as someone who went to one. I have recruited 100s of people to jobs (not in science though) and I don't even know what unis are in the Russell group let alone discrimate on grounds of whether attended one or not.

He should do the subjects that he is likely to get decent grades in. There is no point in him flunking chemistry and ending up st no uni just to gave Russell group in mind. Seriously op you are too hung up on it

Unexpected · 31/10/2013 08:55

Why are you so involved in your nephew's choices? If your sister hasn't even given you his exact GCSE grades and you're not sure what subjects he is taking for A level, I don't think you can know whether it is possible for him to take another combination. All you can do is point him in the direction of useful information on entrance requirements and suggest he speak to careers advice at his school (I also wouldn't necessarily believe him when he says no-one guided him in his subject selection. teenagers have very selective memories!)

callamia · 31/10/2013 08:12

Russell Group universities are not the only route to doing well in life.

The obsession with them being the holy grail of higher education is a bit silly I think. It may be that another university will suit him much better, and will offer him a course that he can excel in, and be happy at. Many excellent professionals went to non-RG universities, just as a number of students go to a RG and under -perform because it's just not right for them. A good match between institution and student is more important.

There is a huge jump between GCSE and A level science subjects, and I've seen a lot if students with A and B science GCSE grades really fail A level science subjects. It may be better that he does take subjects that he might do well in rather than struggling. Students are no longer allowed to take re-takes during their course - and so perhaps sixth forms are being a little more cautious.

intitgrand · 31/10/2013 07:57

i think you should back off it really is not yous business especially he his father is ao academic .doesn t the fact that they won t tell you his gcse grades not telk you something. Butt out

titchy · 30/10/2013 21:00

Please don't equate a non-RG degree with lower job prospectsHmm. He should stick with Biology if that is what he really wants. Just tell him to do a course accredited by Society of Biology, or whoever the professional body is. I really do wish people wouldn't write off all universities if they not RG.

senua · 30/10/2013 18:57

As an aside, I think that you will find that the Philosophy and/or RS is one subject, not two.

caroldecker · 30/10/2013 16:57

Also biology and chemistry are easier than 2 unrelated a levels due to course overlap

schmalex · 30/10/2013 15:55

I did biology, physics and maths and really regretted not doing chemistry as a lot of biological courses do require chemistry. He may find when he studies biology he becomes interested in genetics or biochemistry or medicine or something else that needs chemistry.

In my opinion, if biology is his key area of interest he'd be silly not to do chemistry to back it up. But of course he could study it later.