Should we move house to be near the Royal Latin Grammar School?

ZOMBIE

OP's child will be at some secondary or other by now!

You might consider a place in Finmere. Nice village and an interesting anomaly: it's in Oxon but so close to Buckingham, historically everyone who passes gets in as RLS is undersubscribed within catchment and it's calculated on miles gate-to-gate and so you get easily come in closer compared to all those kids in MK. If child doesn't pass, you are actually catchment for The Cooper, guaranteeing you a place at an Outstanding school.

Oh yes, forgot to mention - there are even some intelligent, middle class parents in Milton Keynes! I suspect they too might have gone to university at some point. I should not be embarrassed to ask them to dinner.

well I'm flabbergasted!
Have you asked DD what she wants? Do she and her siblings want to leave all their school friends that they have known, probably since nursery school to move to an area where they do not know anyone, to be pushed into a school that they are not familiar with? Has she said that anyone is making her life difficult because of her "genius"? Has she said she does not want to go to your local school with her friends?

For those boasting of their familial academic credentials - my father was an obstetrician. I and my 3 siblings were bright. My oldest sibling was considered a "genius" because of her amazing results, voracious reading and her ability to absorb encyclopaedic knowledge from the age of 7 onwards. She passed the 11+ but did not get into the school of her choice. She went to the local comp, where she was treated as the next Einstein and went on to get very poor A levels. Turned out that the "genius" was in fact Aspergers syndrome.

My brother did get into a very prestigious grammar school, to much fanfare and parental boasting. He had a thoroughly miserable time, being small and un sporty. He was the only pupil from his primary school there, so had difficulty breaking into new friendship groups. He was exceptionally bright, but got "eaten alive" because he was not one of the "lads" and the school was an all boys school.

My younger sister and I were the family "thickies". We got sent to the C of E Secondary Modern so as not to be an embarrassment to the other members of our family. It had no academic record whatsoever. We both agree that our time at school was the happiest time of our lives. We are the only 2 that went on to university. I am now a lawyer at a very prestigious law firm.

It does not matter how impressive the school is, how great their results, how fashionable the school is ( or the Kudos it attracts for the parents if the child gets in), children only thrive and achieve their full potential if they are happy. They may be bullied into getting good exam results by ambitious schools, only interested in their position in the league tables and equally ambitious parents, wanting to trump their associates at dinner parties, but at some point, the child becomes an adult and will have to succeed on their own merits and motivation.

My son is 11. I agree with the comments made by others regarding Milton Keynes schools. We came here 5 years ago when he was failing at his local, fashionable primary school. His new primary school has brought him right up from complete failure to at least level 5 and most importantly of all, he is very happy. He is going to one of the very well regarded comprehensives, with his friends and he can't wait to start (oh - did I mention, his dad and Grandfather went to Cambridge, his mother went to a top red brick, his grandmother was a solicitor, his granddad a prominent politician and of course his other grandfather was an obstetrician?)

Put the child first, parental ambition second and the rest will all fall into place.

I would say don't move. If you're child is bright she will do well wherever.

Where we lived when we were looking at secondary for our eldest we had a choice of 3 grammars. One within a reasonable travelling distance, the other two requiring catching a bus at 7am.

We applied for the nearest one only, knowing we had little chance of getting a place. He didn't get a place and so went to the local comp. It was not a good school, not the worst, but not brilliant.

But he did well, in fact he got the best results in the school, and the main thing he was happy among friends, only had a short walk to school, could easily attend after school activities.

Had he gone to the grammar I honestly believe he would not have done so well. He would not have stood the pressure.

In his school he was one of the brightest and that built his self esteem and confidence.

In grammar he would no where near be the brightest and he would not have liked that and may well have stopped giving his education his all.

He did move to the 6th form of a very good school (when you are not bound by catchment area) which he got a place at due to his excellent GCSE results.

He got brilliant A level results and is now at a Russell Group University.

One final point, he did not have a private tutor to help him pass the 11+. I think if your child can not pass the 11+ without extra tuition then they will struggle to keep up in a grammar.

I have two children at the RLS. We moved up from Hertfordshire hoping they would both pass and get in, renting until we knew for sure, then buying in catchment. I have the impression that while it is by far the highest achieving school in our neighbourhood, it is very much coasting on the ability of the high achieving pupils it takes in. The standard of teaching seems very mixed at best. Some departments are fabulous (history) and some a disaster (English) in our experience. Both girls seem to have a large number of cover or supply teachers. We couldn't afford to go privately but I AM disappointed with the standard of teaching they receive. As for primary schools, both ours went to Bourton Meadow which was marvellous. They now have a new head, who seems well liked and about whom I have a very good impression.

freckleface - it would be interesting to hear, what you have decided in the end. We are looking to move near Northampton for a job, hence we are thinking many similar thoughts even if our DC are much younger than yours. Hope it worked out whatever you've decided!

Hello Notquite. I know quite a few parents who have found their DCs struggle at first at any type of school due to the higher organisational skills needed to succeed. I do not know if RLS is different from the others, but I doubt it. Eventually though, children do realise they need the right books, full PE kit on a Monday, the guitar on a Thursday, the need to be in class on time, homework completed etc. My DD forgot her violin umpteen times at primary school. It was just down the road, so no problem. However, I had to drum into her that this just could not happen at senior school. I think the children are reminded about what they need and have diaries but they do have to manage their own school day and be organised. I don't think this just applies to the grammars either. Clearly it is a skill that needs to be mastered or work may be equally problematic.

MMM my youngest is pretty self reliant, just disorganised and a bit quirky. I think you hit the nail on the head with your point about the schools expecting the new year 7s to 'shape up' pretty quickly. She hasn't and tbh is most unlikely to. Not through being deliberately difficult, just through being who she is. My question was whether RLS was a rigid sort of school that expects children to fall into line or not. I guess, from your answer, that all the bucks grammars are pretty much the same, which is a pity.

Hottiebottie. The high attainers at Sponne do not achieve as highly as the high achievers at RLS. Their average GCSE grade is B+ whereas at RLS it is A. Their points score per pupil is also lower. This would suggest more pupils stay on into the 6th form at Sponne who are unlikely to get the top grades at A level.

The destinations of pupils could mean that they are poorly advised on which universities are best and it may mean few pupils achieve AAA at A level in order to access the best universities. I don't have precise details as I am not familiar with the school, but you cannot compare A-C statistics without drilling deeper. It is conceivable a school can get 100% A-C with pupils getting mostly C grades which could never compare with a grammar school but on bare statistics it would.

I have many friends with children at a number of grammar schools around Bucks. They expect self reliance and organised pupils. I think organisation comes with maturity and friends of mine tell me the children have to shape up pretty quickly. However they think that is a good thing. So do I. I expected that of my own children as being disorganised just annoys the teachers.

We're already in Buckinghamshire and underwhelmed by our local grammar. It is academically strong but seems pretty rigid in its approach. My youngest, in particular, is feeling very squashed. How is Royal Latin with the super bright but somewhat disorganised?

Thanks OMM - I see now that's the figure for "high attainers". The overall figure of 80% is still pretty impressive, though, for an all-ability school. I think it still has some ground to make up at A-level, though - surprising that with such high attainers at GCSE and a very large sixth form, the number of pupils progressing to highly competitive university courses (Oxbridge, medicine etc.) is still virtually zero. Improving this would really enable them to compare even more favourably with the grammar, which is only about 20 minutes away.

Hottie here you go:
www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=136488
Under KS4 exam results

OneMoreMum - do you have a link for that GCSE figure for Sponne?

Sorry for the typos
B- for me!

Of course the MK comprehensives are not comparable with the Latin in terms of overall results as they are selective!

If you delve a bit deeper into the results and look at high achievers only (of which the Latin will mostly take students towards the top end of that band), both Ousedale in MK and Sponne beat the Latin at 99% A-C inc Maths & English versus the 98% that the Lain achieve. Even Buckingham school gets 96%.

If you look further at individual grades, the average grade for a high achiever at the Latin it's an A, for most of the others it's an A- or a B+, again once you take into account the fact that a grammar is more selective than just picking the high achievers (level 5's I believe?) they are easily comparable results.

Absolutely nothing against the Latin as I'm sure it's a good school, but don't be fooled into thinking that your children won't do equally well at a good comprehensive, without the stress of 11+ and whether or not siblings will also get in.

Looking at the GCSE results, the MK comprehensives are not comparable with RLS but Denbigh, Ousedale and Shenley are better than the vast majority of the Bucks Secondary Moderns. They should be but Bucks Grammars are still creaming off a lot of talent, particularly at SHF in Aylesbury. Obviously some children are getting the 11+ here or the grammar schools will have a massive drop in pupil numbers. They will not allow this to happen. They cannot afford for this to happen. The tests may be different but the grammar schools will want to be full. Although they will not want standards much below the norm or their results could slip. Interesting to see what happens.

Generally speaking, if your child is on the top table in a well respected, high achieving primary school, the child should get a place at a grammar school. Top table at some primary schools where few ever get to a grammar school, may not mean very much. Over tutoring is not necessary but familiarisation and speed of answering are crucial. Slower, methodical children are the usual casualties in this process (and always have been) as they are not suited by the tests but Bucks would argue they would not be suited by the pace and amount of homework at a grammar school either. This is because they need more time. The quick ones are conscientious too! They just work things out in the time allocated.

Have you considered Milton Keynes? There are a number of very good schools (obvious from the league tables) all of which if you live in the right location (or attend the right primary school) you can be pretty certain of a place at. More importantly you can be sure that all your children will get a place and can relax an enjoy your life instead of spending it fretting over 11+ cramming. You could always take at a crack at the 11+ when the time comes, only siblings and appeals from MK ever get spaces at the Latin these days but whole bus loads make it into the Aylesbury grammars still.
Also don't assume that a bright kid will be 'eaten alive' at a comprehensive, there are tons of bright kids at good comprehensive schools.

I agree that undertaking a move for a grammar school is risky, especially when you have several dcs not all of whom might make the cut.

I know a family who moved opposite a very high-ranking grammar school, in the certain belief their dd would pass the 11+. She didn't. The parents were incredibly bitter. They had taken on a huge mortgage to have their noses rubbed in it every single day. They swiftly moved again and from then on became staunch anti-grammar school campaigners (the dh even joining the LibDems...) which I thought was a bit rich.

Spursjinny. RLS will not be empty though, will it? It is not in the interests of the school to have places going begging as they will lose money. I bet the appeals will sort this out if the test result has been set too high. They can also lower the pass mark. Is there any evidence that RLS will have lots of spare places or is it anecdotal at the moment?

I love The Royal Latin School, DD1 attends there and hopefully DD2 will join her in September. However, moving your entire family to Buckingham just for a chance of getting in is in my opinion extremely risky. The new 11+ exam is brutal and I was shocked at the amount of very bright, academic children who didn't pass.

Hello Freckleface. Bourton Meadow Academy is the best school in Buckingham and has been for a while. It is a large school and you would have to look at their admission arrangements to judge where to live. Also a number of village schools around Buckingham are Infant schools so you would need to see where their transfer to at age 7. Gawcott (Roundwood School) is worth a look and Winslow Primary is popular but is also quite large.

Be very aware that at the moment Bucks CC has refused to pay transport costs to any school in Buckingham, including RLS, from Winslow because it says the new Freemantle Free School is the catchment school. RLS is objecting to this and, of course, you would have to be somewhat mad to choose an unproven free school of about 120 pupils (at the moment) over one of the oldest Grammar Schools in the Country! It was set up by the family of Betsy Duncan Smith (Lord Cottesloe (Freemantle) because a few parents did not like Buckingham Secondary school. RLS is definitely worth moving for and Buckingham is a university town so you will meet like minded people! I would definitely look at Bourton Meadow first.