Russell Education Trust/Russell Group Universities

"but also the disportionate funding that the free school received when being set up"

Whathaveiforgottentoday, I'm not local to Brentwood, so I'm not going to comment on whether the school was needed or not, or whether it was the right choice in preference to a UTC. However, for the record, free schools get the same amount of "start up" funds as any other type of new school, for equipping classrooms, buying books etc. A UTC would have got the same.

Apart from those start-up funds, the amount provided per pupil for running the school once it is open is also the same as any other local school.

" you appear to not understand the difference between 15.6 as the average number of pupils per member of staff, the staff-student ratio, and what you cited "average teaching hours of full-time secondary classroom teachers .... If you really "don't know why there is a discrepancy between that and the figure you've highlighted.", when one number is pupils per teacher and one number is hours per teacher, then I wouldn't take seriously much else that you say"

Or, stated slightly more politely, I've made a mistake and muddled my figures. The numbers I should have looked at in the report I linked to were the ones in figure 1.6, marked PTR. In 2011, that looks to be somewhere around 15.6, so the numbers do tally after all. Glad to clear that up.

It would still be useful to see an equivalent figure for just Year 7/8, since that's all Becket Keys has at the moment.

W&G you appear to not understand the difference between 15.6 as the average number of pupils per member of staff, the staff-student ratio, and what you cited "average teaching hours of full-time secondary classroom teachers have fluctuated between 18.9 and 19.8 between 2003 and 2010", which is a completely unrelated number. If you really "don't know why there is a discrepancy between that and the figure you've highlighted.", when one number is pupils per teacher and one number is hours per teacher, then I wouldn't take seriously much else that you say.

"I would think the science advisor is just that, a science advisor. They don't use the local government advisor (like state schools do). I imagine all the academy/free school chains are using their own advisors nowadays. Are they supposed to draft somebody in from outside? "

Many LAs don't employ their own subject specialists any more .. they use consultants from companies like Education London on an as-needed basis.

Sorry, I meant lower.

I would think the science advisor is just that, a science advisor. They don't use the local government advisor (like state schools do). I imagine all the academy/free school chains are using their own advisors nowadays. Are they supposed to draft somebody in from outside?

Gosh- never thought I'd be defending Becket Keys.

daphnedill I'm assuming not all your points were directed at me?
I was answering a point brought up much earlier in the thread regarding whether qualified staff were employed.
I am more concerned why the government felt it appropriate to open a new secondary school in an area which had a surplus of places anyway. The previous school on the site was closed due to a surplus of places in the area but they felt it appropriate to allow another school to open anyway. My concerns is the impact it will have on the other 2 closest schools (educating Brentwood website covers this issue), not just from the falling numbers in these schools as the compete for too few children which results in a drop in funding, but also the disportionate funding that the free school received when being set up. If I had a DC at either Brentwood County High or Shenfield I would not be happy with the decision Gove made to allow this school to open.
There were other proposals for the site such as a studio school or UTC offering vocation education is this is rather lacking in this area.
Also, I have concerns whether a primary school head has suitable experience to run a secondary school, regardless of how 'good' he was at running the primary school.

"Look at the DfE's workforce data in the latest performance tables"

Then you would need to compare the same data-set for Becket Keys, but it's not available yet because it's a new school.

Otherwise you're not comparing like with like. For example, you say "Schools with large sixth forms will tend to have a lower ratio", but Becket Keys won't even have a Sixth Form until 2017.

"What will the original proposers do if the head doesn't do the job they intended or they find out that they want to end the contract, when the advisers are so heavily involved with trusteeship and governance?"

The school Heads are accountable to the school Governors, as they are at any other school. They are also accountable to RET. Underperformance would be identified and dealt with as it would in any school will an effective board of Governors.

"By the way, I still can't find any reference to EL's involvement in London Challenge."

Follow the link to the report, open the document called "Evaluation of the City Challenge programme" and look at the pages I listed.

"How do you know that RET/EL aren't making money out of setting up free schools?"

Because the funding agreement with the DfE prevents that. I suggest you read it.

"I'm also bothered by the involvement of a former DfE adviser. From an outsider's perspective, this smacks of "jobs for the boys"."

The DfE employs a lot of senior educationalists as advisers, many of whom are successful Headteachers on secondment. They're exactly the sort of people who should be involved in setting up new schools.

Whathavei...

As I raised the issue of the number of TAs at Becket Keys, I should clarify that I wasn't suggesting that the school employs unqualified teachers. However, my eyebrows were raised by the number of TAs the school employs. There has been some research suggesting that a high number of TAs at secondary level doesn't necessarily raise attainment. There are a number of reasons for this, but that's for another thread.

My concern with RET/EL is the blurring of governance and financial issues in the model adopted. Parachuting one of the two named advisers into the headship role would also bother me. What will the original proposers do if the head doesn't do the job they intended or they find out that they want to end the contract, when the advisers are so heavily involved with trusteeship and governance? By the way, I still can't find any reference to EL's involvement in London Challenge.

How do you know that RET/EL aren't making money out of setting up free schools? They've had over a million pounds of government money over the last couple of years. I have no evidence that the money has been misspent, but I looked at their accounts and it isn't clear how it has been spent. I'm also bothered by the involvement of a former DfE adviser. From an outsider's perspective, this smacks of "jobs for the boys".

I assume you asked questions about these issues when you accepted RET advice.

To answer the question about teacher/pupil ratio...

Look at the DfE's workforce data in the latest performance tables.

For example...

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=136442

or

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/search.pl?location=saffron+walden+county+high+school&phase=all&searchType=location

You'll see that the national average for state-funded secondaries is 15.6. Schools with large sixth forms will tend to have a lower ratio.

Mary,

How would a school finance having enough specialist teachers to teach just one class at secondary level? After the initial set-up funding, free schools get no more money per pupil than any other state-funded school.

Becket keys in brentwood does not employ unqualified staff. I know this as a close friend works there. I didn't and still don't agree with the opening of this free school for many reasons but I can say they employ qualified staff.

" I don't think there is any private equity behind EL"

No, EL are a small family-run educational consultancy. They set up RET using their own funds and put a lot of pro-bono work into supporting local groups to propose schools. As each school has been approved the trust has received Gvt funding in accordance with their funding agreements. Those funds are used to run the schools. In accordance with the funding agreements RET operates on a non-profit basis and the trustees don't draw a salary.

The schools can benefit from access EL services on an at-cost basis if they want to use them, but no profit is made by EL for any services provided to RET schools.

All that info is on some of the school websites.

So, what you are saying is, in countries with laws against breach of copyright, every man who sports a moustache is your father?

And that does not stop you from buying and using Chinese products either. Just look around your household and see how many products are made in China; maybe even the hardware you used to post your message is made in China too!

(The CHinese are known for their breach of copyright and trade marks however so I am not so sure their sayings are appropriate to countries with laws against passing off)

Although I would never use state schools and didn't go to them myself, we do know someone who went to one and it started I believe with 1 form/year group. Is that not the norm
for new schools? Nothing wrong with that at all. It is this one www.jcoss.org/welcome-to-jcoss

The legal regime is set by law as someoe else said above - they are all companies limited by guarantee. That is the legal route also used by many many charities. It is perfectly legitimate.

I am deeply suspicious of all of Gove's policies. Free schools that have opened in areas of surplus places (particularly rural areas) and/or have religious admissions criteria are particularly divisive. The whole academies programme is chaotic, anti-democratic and lacking transparency.

I wouldn't view this sponsor with as much suspicion as some of the other for-profit companies, though - at least individuals in the trust have had experience of managing state schools in this country. I don't think there is any private equity behind EL like IES or a lot of the private school operators trying to get in on the act (does anyone know?). The London Challenge report does say positive things about their school improvement consultants in secondary schools. I don't get the impression that they have been championed by Tory local politicians or other ideological flag wavers either.

Interesting to know how they arrived at the name. There are global private school chains use names like 'Westminster', 'Wellington' and 'Winchester', etc. just to borrow the kudos. I wonder if they have ever been sued?

”Can anyone confirm if the Free School sponsor "Russell Education Trust" is linked to the Russell Group Universities please?”

The Chinese have a saying, “Not every man who sports a moustache is your father.”

Ahhh . . . very clever, those Chinese!

"The national average secondary school pupil/teacher ratio is 15.6 ..."

Where is that figure from? According to this report, the "average teaching hours of full-time secondary classroom teachers have fluctuated between 18.9 and 19.8 between 2003 and 2010 .... Numbers of teaching assistants and other support staff increased after policy changes were introduced to boost the number of support staff in schools. This would explain the falling PAR from 2000 to 2010. "

"What page is it on? I looked previously and couldn't find it......Have scanned all the documents again"

Try using ctrl-F to do a text search. Pages vii, 51, 52, 57, 104.

"By the way, the RET isn't a charitable trust - it's a private limited company by guarantee"

Yes it is. All academy trusts, including those for converter academies, transformational academies and free schools, are set up as private companies limited by guarantee. Their charitable status is conferred on them when they sign an academy funding agreement with the DfE. They are known as "exempt charities" and there is more information on the Charity Commission website here.

Nope! There's something very fishy here! I hope you have satisfactory explanations - for the sake of the hundreds of children you intend to educate and the millions of pounds of public money you'll be controlling. I'm going to leave it now, but I know somebody with much better investigative resources than I have - he's looking for a new project!! :-)

Have scanned all the documents again - I'm still missing any references to Education London and Google throws up nothing.

What page is it on? I looked previously and couldn't find it.

By the way, the RET isn't a charitable trust - it's a private limited company by guarantee - I think you need to change your website!

"I haven't been able to find one reference to Education London/Russell Education Trust's involvement"

EL are mentioned in the Government report I linked to earlier. Here it is again.