Overruling child’s choice of secondary school

Sorry to hear about your illness.
I know several parents who decided on the school their dc would attend for various reasons.
Sometimes it isn't their decision to make and it's your job as a parent to make the decision anyway.
I certainly wouldn't feel bad about making the right decision for the child and family in general.

sashh you need read the thread.

Purp1e thank you for updating this thread and I am pleased you are doing well.

Secondary choice is a hard decision so I am glad your situation worked out. We also sent our son to a different secondary than all of his friends but we had moved house so were able to address it much earlier on in the process. However, he was still attending the same primary school.

Your original post from 2013 was at the same time as our own application. I hope you continue to remain stable on your meds.

I think you need to discuss your illness with him otherwise he might be resentful of you for either stopping him going to the school he wanted, or to allow him to go knowing that you are so ill.

I'm so sorry you are in this situation and I can only guess at how difficult it might be to discuss this. He probably knows something is not right but can't work out what.

Hi, I'm glad things have worked out for the best on both fronts, school and your treatment. I didn't realise how old the thread was when I read it. I was going to chip in with my 10 cents worth. My daughter had to change schools at the end of year9. Not being in favour of grammar schools or more importantly, not confident she would get in, I steered her to the local comp which she absolutely hated. She applied by herself to get to the grammar for 6th form, worked very hard for her GCSEs and is very happy there!

Op I have thought about you all day I am in the situation of trying to choose a secondary school for my year 6 dd, and agonising over league tables.

Your situation is so sad and my heart goes out to you. I'm going to stop the agonising, as your post has put things into perspective for me. Dd doesn't mind where she goes, but my first choice is a school with good pastoral care because I feel that it's important.

DeWe - that takes my breath away. Do you REALLY think the OP and her family won't have considered that he knows? I expect she has been down every avenue and into every scenario there is, both really and in thought, and doesn't need yet another story from someone who isn't living it. She asked for advice about schools, not on how she deals with her illness, and she has made that clear. That's the last I'll say, promise

I'm sorry for your situation.
I don't think you have lied to your ds at all, but you haven't told him the whole truth, which is totally understandable. But he may have found out, or worked out his own conclusion. Which may or may not be as bad as the truth. I'm not sure telling him over the issues of schools will resolve it, in fact it may make him more resentful, as though you're emotionally trying to bribe him to agree with you. I would choose your time to tell him, find a good time when he can question you and feel supported.

I do have a story to share:
My dm had a friend who was taken into hospital after finding cancer, to have it removed. Very much a routine operation, they hoped to remove it all and not even need chemo afterwards. Dm saw her son, who was 13yo at the time, and asked him how she was, knowing that the operation was the day before. The conversation went like this:
"and will she be home tomorrow as expected?"
"that's what dad's telling everyone."
"Oh good."
"I won't see her again though. She'll die in hospital."

The thing was, dm found when she talked to him about it, was that they had been bright and breezy "oh it'll all be fine..." and he had decided that they were trying to hide it. He, in turn, had hidden from them that he thought this, and felt he couldn't ask, and talk to them about it because they were telling him it was no issue and not to worry.

So dm had a 13yo boy she didn't know very well in tears in the middle of town with no way (before mobiles) of contacting his parents, and no way of convincing him that what she was not just giving platitudes.
She managed to contact the neighbours to let them know, and took him to the hospital to see his parents. But if she hadn't happened to see him-he was planning on running away that night, he'd got his bag packed, he was going to try and sneak into the hospital (20 miles away)and see her "one last time" and run away for good.

But actually I think you have last say on schools. Children can be taken on one single thing, which actually will effect them very little. I would discuss it, and let him have his say, maybe both write down the good things about each school? But you have the final say. Would it be possible to say to him that you will be happy to review after a year,. and if he's not happy you will move him to the other school? I did that with dd1, and at the end of a year, she didn't want to be moved.

On the pastoral side, you do need to be careful. Try and find people who have experience. One local school has outstanding on Ofsted and sounds impressive on paper. I know from people who have dealt with them that actually when it comes to using it, it is worse than useless. Thie main way of dealing with issues is to swear they aren't an issue-even when evidence is in front of them.

Another school that had a bad reputation generally, it's pastoral side is excellent according to all who use it.
It's very easy for a school to say "we have all this for pastoral problems" but whether they acknowledge things to be a pastoral problem and then use it, is another matter.

Sorry, that's very long.

"We have a good support network to help us deal with this as a family so I don't need advice on this aspect on this forum." Well said, shame you need to say it, eh?

Do what you feel is best regarding schools. I over-ruled my daughter, felt it was part of parental responsibility to make what I thought was the best decision. (That's why we get to sign the form and not them.) No regrets though it made for a longer journey. She now can't remember why she wanted to go to the other one. Nuf said

This post made me cry too. I would always say that unless his choice school is sub-standard, let your son make the choice, but of course this is subjective...My parents chose my secondary school, and I was miserable there, and to this day can't understand what made them chose it.

Im so,so sorry to read your post it made me cry.

I think your son will take comfort in the fact that you chose his school when he is older. I have children the same age as you and I wont let them choose the school they go to. I listen to their opinions but ultimately I know what is best for them, as do you.

So sorry to hear of your situation.

In my experience children from primary schools are often split at secondary, so your DS may find that he is not with his friends, even if he is at the same school as them. My DS was the only one from his primary to go to his secondary. He still sees his friends from primary at weekends and a load of them are meeting up during half term. We sent DS to the school we thought was best for him, where he will get the most opportunity and the best education.

OP, why don't you talk privately to the mother of the friend you think may be influencing your DS to go to the other school. She may be able to find out more from her son what your DS likes so much about it. It may be something nebulous but very important in that he just felt more comfortable there when he visited. If however it is just his friend enthusing about how great it would be if they were together there then in your shoes I would be happy to overrule his wishes. However his friend's mother might be able help to you in dissuading him from his choice.

I was wondering how you judge how good the pastoral care is when you visit a school? This is usually a very difficult area to decide whether one school would be better than another. Also the staff and policies may change before you need them and your DS will also mature so what you see now is without the benefit of a crystal ball! I tend to want my children to settle well and really want to be part of the school they go to. Buying into a school was important to them. However, if you are likely to lose a place at your catchment school if you do not put it first but gamble on the other, possibly ending up with nothing, I would go with your choice . If you think you will get into your DS's choice, I would go with that as no school will be unsupportive. I wish you well.

Sorry about your situation.

If it were for my children I would explain to them that we put both choices down on the form and it is not up to you which school they go to but the LEA. You have no say in it.

Does he know you order it in preference ?
If not then I would suggest to him that its in distance and you have to list the closest one first or something along those lines.

At the end of the day a 10 year old will only be worried about not knowing anyone or having any friends at school but once they start they will make new friends. I think its too big a choice to let a child decide which school they go to. You should put your foot down and make the choice but explain you have taken into account what he has said. If he has not offered any good reason to go to the other school then you should choose the one you think is right.

Im currently deciding for my DD. She wanted to go to the school where all her friends were going until the head visited her school and told them theres little chance she will be in the same class as her friends due to the numbers in the year (248 I believe) . I took her to the open evening of a very good school in the next town and she really enjoyed her visit. SO much shes even prepared to make new friends to go there.

Really sorry to hear about your situation.

Can you get any support from a knowledgeable charity or similar re telling him the truth? I know my friend who died from cancer had a lot of support from the MacMillan trust and they helped her to decide to tell her children the truth. This made the atmosphere in the house much easier and the whole family could be involved in discussing arrangements both during her illness and afterwards. It also meant she was not too ill to support them and comfort them when the blow fell.

I understand that this is horrendously hard, but I think you underestimate how quickly your ds will grow up once he goes to secondary school and how much it will be expected and normal to involve him in discussions as a rational adult. Having to lie to a 12/13yo is not actually that different from having to lie to your spouse or any other adult who lives with you. It is likely to poison the atmosphere because he will know something is wrong and your decisions based on what you know won't make sense based on what he knows.

Lying to him about your application would seem totally out of the question. Any memories you leave him with now, any feelings of having been lied to or betrayed or not trusted will be with him forever, because you won't be there to explain.

i think that at 10/11 children should not be given final choice in their school. input yes of course, but not final decision (unless it's unanimous of course!)

I think you and his dad need to sit down with him and explain every reason why you think that this school will be better for him.
and then ask him to provide you with compelling reasons why he disagrees and thinks the other is better.

if he can't then you get to make the final choice. You're looking at this long term, he isn't! he is reacting on gut, you are doing it because you know what will be best for him...

I think getting him to articulate the reasons for his preference might be very important. I know how hard this is (DS2 is very inarticulate in general).

He hasn’t been able to articulate his reasons for wanting to go to the other school or his reasons for not wanting to go to our preferred school so it is difficult to reassure him.

Have you thought that maybe he is trying to find out how ill you are? If you let him go to his choice of school then you can't really be very ill.

Why have you not told him? He is old enough to understand and old enough to want memories.

This is not about schools, this is about you and your child.

OP you are in a terribly uncomfortable position, but I wonder if your son has an inkling of what the truth is already? Maybe for him its a fear of what might be & he's chosen the school because he feels the best friend there will be more supportive? You know your child best & this is just an opinion, but I would advise you to speak honestly with your son. Also look around both schools again during a normal school day. Ask to speak to someone at the schools about pastoral care. You never know, you & DH may change your minds?

I'm sending my very best, best wishes Purp1eSky & hope your illness can be managed successfully for as many years as possible.

Could it be that he wants to move apart from.most of.his Primary school friends? Maybe he doesnt get on with the ones that are going to.your preferred school and he wants a fresh start.

I read your post with tremendous sadness, and wanted to convey my sincere sympathy with you. The situation you are in is in many ways one of my worst fears and I wish you all the best.

While I am not in your position I would strongly suggest that you are completely honest with your son about your disease prognosis. I have seen first hand the devastating consequences of not being fully honest with children about their parents terminal illness.

I am linking to a very well written article on the subject:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/21/cant-protect-children-by-lying

My son really wanted to go to our catchment school with his close friends. We wanted him to go to another.
The catchment school had not great results, poor facilities and teachers who seemed defeated by the problems at the school.
We were lucky. He got a place at the other school. He has settled in well, has a close group of friends and is thriving in Yr 8.
An 11 year old does not necessarily know what is best for him.