What happens if they get excluded?

When you talk to your daughter what does she say about the situation and reason for it?

You've said a lot, but i haven't seen your daughters thoughts mentioned at all, only your opinion.

I assume you do talk about it and you do listen to her?

I really hate people trying to over simplify the issue of disruption. There can be a massive number of reasons why a child becomes difficult to manage in the classroom.

For the other people in the classroom, the reason is irrelevant; it's the disruption that is the problem.

I have not once mentioned the word bully - I have mentioned bad behaviour and disruption - that is what was being suffered on a daily basis.

Thank you friday16 you have summed up exactly what I want to convey taking out all the emotion.

Is it not blindingly obvious that the system has gone too far and that the education of the majority needs to be protected from the ill behaved, trouble making minority.

One thing that issues very clearly from married's posts - apart from the fact that she assumes on very flimsy grounds the OP's dd is a bully because the disruptive children in her dd's school were bullies- is that it doesn't matter what happens to the children in the rough school, as long as the children in the naice school are protected from all disturbance.

Even assuming that the OPs dd were a bully- and we have seen absolutely no evidence of that- why do the children in the new school deserve that more than the children in the other school? Clearly because they are a "rough" school, so married doesn't identify with them.

Hang in there, Minifingers. It seems a horrible situation but you are working with the school, they are working with you, neither of you want this, it may be that this latest escalating of the situation will actually lead to more and better intervention.

Tom Bennett (who also blogs as "The Behaviour Guru") writes on this topic

"But the other kids have no less right to me; they deserve attention just as much, and yet bad behaviour in school forces us to treat them like children of a lesser God. It's no wonder that many kids think, 'Hang on, if I want attention, I should act up, like the naughty kids.' It's why we learn the names of the wriggles and the shouters long before we know who the quiet, hard working kids are. It's a tragedy, and it is it's own injustice. That's why schools need or make behaviour such a priority, as an issue of social justice, not just utility."

"[...] you have not once encouraged her to reflect about her actions on others. That perhaps is why she is so badly behaved - everything in her life is about self because that is what has been projected. "

You have no idea about this girl's life, married. None of us do. The above comment was completely out of order, and does your credibility no favours at all.

Married, the OP's DD has not harmed your daughter.

What your daughter has been through sounds utterly horrendous- but this thread is not the place to blame anyone. The OP's DD is a different child, you have no idea how she feels, the reason for her behaviour, or even what her behaviour looks like.

Nowhere has the OP suggested that her DD has targeted other children, and what you are doing is incredibly inappropriate.

"Girls like your daughter made my daughter's life a misery for two years"

You've never met her- your daughter has never met her. How on earth could the OP's DD be responsible for what your daughter suffered? You are projecting your DD's awful experiences onto this situation which simply isn't fair and makes you look spiteful.

Yes I agree tethersend! Haven't read any evidence of the OP's daughter being a bully. Realise perhaps my observations haven't been very helpful, just thought that the other poster who's rather emotional post was branded 'stupid' may be as sensitive to the issue of bullying as I am! (Even if not present in this case!).

I'm awfully sorry but I have lived this from the other side. Your dd's behaviour is your responsibility overall and there are no circumstances where a badly behaved, uncontrollable pupil should ever be allowed to dilute the educational achievement of the children who are well behaved and willing to learn. Yes there is something wrong with your daughter and yes it needs to be dealt with but not at the expense of others. I am sorry you are going through this but you have had three years since primary school to deal with it and perhaps she needs a little more help than a few sessions of CAHMs can provide.

Our daughter became so distressed by bad behaviour that she started to self harm, developed early stage anorexia and required paediatric specialist counselling. So yes, I am harsh because I think people whose children don't behave need to be aware of the consequences on other people's children. My daughter was able to move to a naice school and I am very grateful for that; some of her classmates who were lovely girls some of them from single parent homes with very little money are stuck there - still struggling with mothers worrying that they are doing their best and that their children's achievements are being incrementally eroded.

Your dd has had her chance in a good supportive school; it isn't enough for her so by default she needs to face the consequences of life in a bad school. It might be the wake up call that she needs. I say that on behalf of every parent who has children who have to suffer bad and disruptive behaviour on a daily basis. When I was at school it didn't happen - there were no adjustments and action plans the children were expelled.

Yes - she must be terrified, what with having a hard-working, compliant child at a naice private school (having left a 'small, high performing state comprehensive'). Seriously - how heartbreaking for her and her dd that a few of her lessons were spoiled by badly behaved children

Finally that comment OP sums up the extent to which you have considered your daughter's impact on others and implies to me that you have not once encouraged her to reflect about her actions on others. That perhaps is why she is so badly behaved - everything in her life is about self because that is what has been projected.

I'm not going to nakedly sympathise with you - girls like your daughter made my daughter's life a total misery for two years.

I don't think it's helpful to see this in terms of 'bullies' and 'victims'. Often children with challenging or disruptive behaviour are 'victims'.

Besides which, nothing the OP has said suggests that her DD has been bullying other children- other posters have simply projected that.

I posted before I read that you had already tried a managed move. Do you think she wants to end up at a PRU? I'm sure you have explained to her what the consequences of her behaviour will be! Interesting that she has friends who have also ended up there.

I still agree with much of what marriedinwhite said (although perhaps not the tone!) in so much as if I had a child who was continually bullied and disrupted in a school i had chosen for her, I would be devastated and would be taking her out ASAP. I have a huge amount of sympathy with victims of bullying, but I'm afraid not so much with the bullies. Sorry, I'm not much help I know!

And have a on me

Here's some guidance which may be helpful

It will be worth discussing next steps with the school- a managed move to another mainstream school is nearly always preferable to a permanent exclusion. Managed moves can also be to a PRU.

Having taught in PRUs, I have seen some children flourish in them, and some who needed to be in mainstream or a more specialist setting. Don't assume it will be all bad if your DD goes to one.

Does the school have any local agreements with other schools? Some schools will send pupils to another school or PRU for a fixed term before considering permanent exclusion. Some boroughs have specialist settings, although nowadays it is more likely to be under the 'Alternative Provision' (AP) banner, along with the PRU.

Can you say where you are? PM me if you like.

X-post!

I don't think marriedinwhite's post is stupid OP, a little insensitive perhaps but she sounds like a mother worried about her child, just like you.

If something has gone terribly wrong in this school, maybe a managed move to another may be for the best?

What are her friends like?

I thought I'd posted on this thread? My posts seem to have disappeared!