What happens if they get excluded?

Have you tried specialist Adolescent counseling OP?

No advice I'm afraid, but above all please do remember that decisions and actions made at the age of 14 or 15 very rarely have a life-long effect on someone.

There are always ways and means, and even if she does end up in a PRU without a GCSE to her name, all is not lost. She can return to education easily enough as an adult, the opportunities to do so in London are huge, as are work experience opportunities while she finds her feet.

It's very difficult as a parent on a teen to imagine the current self-destructive path can ever have a good outcome, but given a bit of growing up, most teens end up as reasonably well balanced 20 year olds, more able to face their futures and do something about them.

Just remember that - the next couple of years does NOT indicate the next 20!

I think a solution would be to let her work in a menial job. WaShing up in a restaurant. i know she is below age but its a very good remainder of what she will be if she doesn't knuckle down at school.

Im not sure it will work but it was a very good incentive for me to keep my nose clean and my powder dry.

Please dont all go off on married as she is only putting a point forward. Its not helpful...The thread is about try to help OP with suggestions.

It sounds like a terrible time. As an adult dealing with the stresses of secondary school it has regurgitated memories for me. Especially regarding one girl who was disruptive and particularly nasty to be honest. In the harsh light of adulthood I have wondered what led her to be that way. Has something happened to her in or out of school that she is and has not dealt with. Have you broached this with her? Would it be worth trying to get her someone she can talk to confidentialy who she can share with., I hope you get it sorted x if its any help my niece went off the rails but is now a happily married mum of one x

If she were mine I would either come down on her like a tonne of bricks or completely disengage.

What do you actually say to her when she says the teachers are incompetent?

Are you taking away her phone and doing other things to punish her behaviour at school?

Op. So its just certain classes? Is there a pattern? So the ones she is bored in/not being stretched in, or the ones she finds difficult?

Marriedinwhite.

The problems your daughter had sound awful, but seem really disproportionate to what you say is the cause. I can imagine that bullying could trigger off those things, but disruption? Really? She would have to be an extremely and unusually sensitive child to be affected so seriously by disruption. Are you sure that your not looking for something to blame it on and have latched onto that?

Sorry if I've missed something.

Really? That's what you decided to pick from my post? Not the fact that I think she is unfairly having a go at you? Not the fact that I think she is transfering her anger at her situation onto you? Not the fact that I said your daughter did nothing to hers and you did nothing to her? Not the fact that I said she was being unfair to you?

Fine.

As far as I understand it, one of the meanings of justifiable is with good reason. Another is understandable. Another is excusable. Another is pardonable. An emotion that is acceptable because there is good reason for it is yet one more.

She is angry with good reason. Her daughter has been seriously emotionally hurt. It is understandable that she is angry about that. It is understandable that she has anger towards those girls and their parents. Her anger towards them is justifiable. Understandable. you can be justifiably angry at the hurt and damage done to your child and understandably angry with those you hold responsible.

And please try and ignore those who feel that this is the right forum to air their grievances about disruptive children. Am quite shocked, actually.

At this stage, the school need to show that they have tried everything they can to support her. Many schools start to talk about permanent exclusion before they have done this, which is unfair as the guidance specifically prohibits schools talking of permanent exclusion as a means to encourage parents to change schools.

Has she had/is she on a Pastoral Support Plan? This is the very least I would expect if permanent exclusion is being mentioned.

Does she have a learning mentor or other key person in school?

Is she on the code of practice? At what stage?

Has she been seen by the EP?

Marriedinwhite - are you grabbing hold of the OP because you never had the chance to let out your (justifiable) anger at the parents of the girls who actually did this to your daughter? Your daughter has clearly gone through hell (I understand. I was bullied at school so badly that I tried to kill myself and eventually I was so unwell I ended up in MHU) but this child is not them. This parent is not the parent of one of those children and although I understand that you're angry about what those other children did to your daughter, it's really unfair to use this thread and this OP to get all that out.

I assume that's what you're doing. Otherwise you are just choosing to kick the OP and from your other posts over time, I don't think you're that sort of person.

Oh and another thing - which isn't to say that you needn't worry about the here, now and immediate future - some of us work to different timetables. I left school the moment I turned 16 (at the start of what is now called Y11, so illegally, not that anyone bothered to chase it up), with not a GCSE to my name.

I was never disruptive in class, but I was very badly behaved - telling the dep head to fuck off, barely attending. I hated school. Utterly hated it. I hated being leapt on the moment I set foot in the grounds for wearing socks over my tights in winter, dozens of stupid, petty rules. Now, I look back and realise that I was a bloody nightmare and the teachers weren't all bad, but in my hormone ridden, radical, angry little head school was oppressive and stifling. It didn't suit me at all.

I was no trouble at all at work (started part time at 14, full time as soon as I decided never to go to school again). Studied a bit part time, went to uni after an access course at 21. I'm a professional in a pretty serious job, having been out of work probably 3 months in total over 25 years. I'm also fairly happy!

So yes, work with school and your daughter but please don't despair too much

Have you been able to access any outside support for her? Counselling or youth worker or similar? Would the school help you to access this as part of supporting her?

I feel for you op. Some children do this sort of thing for no reason. If she does go into PRU it won't be the end of the world she might be better suited.

Married in white stop being unhelpful you would not like people judging your daughter. Sounds like she has problems too. So thought you would be the last to judge .

mini's duty here is to her daughter. If her daughter's issues can be resolved, then the impact on other pupils will be be a positive one.

I cannot see any value in banging on about the harm her behaviour is causing other students here, particularly as the OP and her daughter have already experienced this from the other side, thus prompting the move to her current school.

I don't really have any advice OP, other than to suggest that not all mixed schools are rife with sexual harassment (I doubt any are free of it either, sadly) and not to write co-ed off entirely, particularly as the atmosphere in her girls school doesn't seem to be working for your daughter now.

So on a practical level- how close is she to perm excl? How many fixed terms has she had?
Does she acknowledge some of the sanctions as reasonable? Are there any teachers at all she likes/respects?

Marriedinwhite, why do you always, always wade into these discussions with the same old tone and same old story. It's fecking unhelpful to say the least and very smug.

The simple fact that you fail to see is that it isn't always down to the parents that a kid plays up at school. You have been lucky with your two, personality comes into just as much as upbringing. I know you'll disagree as you did on a thread of mine when I was in despair about my DD.

Kids can come from a lovely supportive family, with boundaries and discipline and still go off the rails. I have twin DDs, one of whom is doing exceptionally well at school and wouldn't dream of mucking about, her sister, well she's a different kettle of fish, but they have both been brought up in exactly the same way, how do you explain that then?

Please don't post on these threads unless you have something constructive and helpful to add, it just adds to the OPs anguish.

That wasn't meant in an insulting way! I asked if you talk to her because you hadn't yet mentioned a single thing about what its like from her point of view. I assumed you did but who are we to know if you don't say.

Are you this spikey in real life? You're taking offense to everything!

Mini could it be because of her bad experiences at her last school?She could be finding it difficult to let go of that,so she could have gone to this new school with very low expectations and an assumption that she wouldn't be there for long.

Although from what you've said she's had no problems(ie being bullied ect)her emotional and mental state could still be set at what it was when she was going through all the shit at her last school.

Have the school offered any form of help in the way of counseling?

Have some sympathy with marriedinetc views. Your dd op, by being so disruptive in class is affecting other girls education and you seem to minimise this.

I've no advice, sorry, but do feel for you and your dd, but also for the girls whose education she's being allowed disrupt.

There is a whole other thread to be created about the effect disruptive children have on the rest of the class. I think most parents know how awful that can be for their DCs.

But this thread was created by a mother asking for some support in dealing with her child. She doesn't need people jumping on her telling her how awful her daughter is.

Mini, does your daughter have any idea why she cannot cope with school? I was a perfect child until secondary school when I did create a certain amount of chaos through my adolescence but I did calm down. My Dad was called to the school a couple of times. I know why I behaved as I did. I hated the regimentation of my school and the lack of flexibility or any outlet for creativity of the kind I was interested in. I hated the school dictating everything I wore. So I showed it by acting out.

I'm semi retired now but spent a lot of my teaching career working with children with challenging behaviour in a school created for them. There is no one answer but having adults listen to how they feel helps a lot. Maybe your daughter would benefit. Most of them we managed to ease back into mainstream but I like to think we also helped those who could never make the change.

I hope you and your daughter's school find a resolution. I hope she "sees the light" as I did and realises the person she is hurting most is herself. I hope she discovers why she cannot control herself.