sutton schools selective test today

Wilson's second test format tomorrow , seems likely to be a comp and a long form Maths paper. Fingers crossed

Pretty sure that they don't spring surprises with the maths they expect the boys to know - well they didn't two years ago.

Interested to see if different formats and timings for the 3 Sutton GSs . WCGS seems to imply a 25 minute written composition ( still think this is very limited time wise , 1 page A4 ) will they be fanatical about spelling grammar and punctuation or mark more positively on creativity and style.

Maths likely to be trad and long form. Still have a beef if they test maths areas that are not covered by start of Y6 , these are boys not machines. Do not conclude everyone has time or cash for tutors. We will see....

The distance issue is definitely part of SGS's policy - DS missed out on an initial offer because,even though he got the initial cut off score, there were obviously boys who lived closer to the school than us.

If you read the schools' websites, they tell you what is in the second tests. They are all having their own second test, except Greenshaw. Greenshaw chooses on the basis of the selective eligibility test only (and includes girls of course).

That distance criteria is just for Sutton: the other schools just go on distance for boys on the same
final mark. Now that could still easily be 20-40 boys who are competing on distance, but for Sutton there could be 80+ boys competing on distance.

I am pretty sure they are different tests - for eg Wallington is 20 mins creative writing. Apparently my son knows where the magic machine that reads all the results is! Though presumably each test centre will mark the childrens who sat there on Saturday.

I am sure there is a cost issue - I would happily pay a nominal admin fee for my son to sit the test, if it would help it to be fairer.

Lady muck - is that distance and bandings method only for Sutton grammar ? or all of them?

to should read so

Just looked at the SGS website info on admissions and found this:

"Specifically in relation to Sutton Grammar School, the result of the Selective Eligibility Test will determine whether or not a boy may be entered for Sutton Grammar School’s second stage entrance test."

Implies that the second round tests are school-specific to doesn't necessarily cut down on the amount of exams taken by those who pass the first round and are eligible to sit all the second round tests....

It's a quick turnaround because it is all happening by computer. No human will check to see whether someone screwed up and used pen not pencil or circled rater than crossed-through the answer, or put in the exam code for maths instead of English. I imagine the marks will be known by the end of the day, standardised possibly even today, or at worst tomorrow, and then the 4 schools can select their "passmark".

That's an interesting point, Tiggytape.... I had assumed (but I stand to be corrected) that at the second stage one might do a school-specific test but maybe not.....

I think it's amazing that they can do such a quick turnaround. I recall that Wilson's and Wallington were relatively speedy with giving back pass/fail info when DS did his.....

Can you imagine a DS having to sit Tiffins as the 'be all/end all' option if he did have a 'blippy' day on Saturday......

All 3 schools set different exams, so after the email on Thursday you get invited to sit the other exams. Wilsons and Wallington are in early October but Sutton is still holding its exam in November after the CAF! Though you won't be told anything until March from them. Wilsons and Wallington will give you a pass/fail (but no score or ranking) 7-10 days before the CAF deadline. The next exams are different formats and have the test just sat included in the overall ranking but in different weightings.... And Sutton has changed its admissions so that distance is a far greater factor than ever before (rather than just boys on the same mark getting judged on distance, they are placed in 4 mark bands, so boys getting 97-100 get in on score alone, 93-96 may also do so, but those say scoring 89-92 will be ranked on distance, so a boy scoring 89 but next door to the school will get in above those scoring 90-92).

So if they get through, then it is as many exams as before, but you know that instead of going against 1600 boys you are going against 700 bright boys.

I think that it is being done on the basis of cost rather than on being fairer or "better". The schools bear the entire cost of testing all who apply.

Minniemouse, your DS sounds a lot like ours! Not sure our DS has quite applied the extra focus yet though!

Well the whole thing is a farce really and unnecessarily stressful to all concerned. But, as I've always said, a lot of this is down to 'spin' from some parents - not all but there's definitely a significant contingent.....

We have quite a lot of boys from DD's school who've applied so it will be interesting to see what the fall-out is on Thursday.

You say they know what they are doing but... if its IQ they are testing then lets have an IQ test, if its standard of education received so far then that puts the privately educated at an advantage with classes being half the size. If its the ability to "do the test" then that wont help when they get in. The old tutoring argument makes me quite cross - if they did a standard IQ test and everyone had the same level of education then there would be no need. Indeed if we all had access to secondary schools of a higher standard then there would not be this grammar frenzy every year! My older son is at one of the aformentioned grammar schools schools and yes he was tutored because despite his potential the local primary school didnt stretch him and he coasted. Is he keeping up - yes of course he is, it just took for a bit of extra focus to help him realise his potential.
This new multiple choice test is an extra hoop to jump through and puts massive pressure on these 10 year olds, and fine if there are no learning difficulties such as dyslexia, however it does mean its not a level playing field for some who may have the IQ and potential. Bring on Thursday the anticipation is killing me! Good luck to all x

As it stands, you can't register for any of the grammars yet, which is why I think that the thought of only putting 600-700 through might be flawed. I suspect that in fact they will put through closer to 800 in order to keep the proportion the same. Currently the schools have no idea which schools the applicants are interested in. Any whilst there may be an assumption that boys will sit all 3, if they are also sitting exams elsewhere AND they are not immediately local to Sutton there is a risk that there will be fewer boys sitting each.

I have several friends whose DSs have done the 11+ test with a view to possibly going to Greenshaw...what happens if they get thro' to the next stage - it is possible that some parents might then think its worth a 'punt' at the grammars (even if they've not registered specifically for any of them) or then put then down on their CAFs - presumably it's not too late to do that?

Totally agree with you SweetPenelope, although DS didn't apply for Tiffin as we'd got five other (semi) selectives on his CAF and didn't want 6/6...

In Wimbledon it's common to sit for the Sutton schools and Tiffin. We're between Sutton and Kingston and the travelling time is about the same for all of them.

I agree completely with gazzalw, we only know of one boy who "passed" all three tests in DS' class and even he didn't pass well enough to get his first choice of school.

Although sitting so many exams was arduous for the boys it did at least give them the chance to have an off day and not count themselves out of the race for all schools. In any event, I don't think it's that common to sit for Tiffin and all 3 Sutton grammars. They are just too geographically diverse for most families to be able to travel to all of them in a reasonable time.

Good luck for Thursday

At DS's superselective, in his class, very few of the boys passed Wilson's, Wallington and Sutton (even the super brainy ones) so it will be interesting to see what anomalies this "one size fits all" first round exam will throw up.....

If a boy is having an 'off day' even if he's a dead cert academically...he might not make it thro'....

Yes, Ladymuck, I agree with you.....I think it could throw a spanner in the works for a fair few boys....

Don't you also think though that the upped number of applicants could be because this year, unlike previous years,a DS might only have two bites at the cherry, instead of four or five of yesteryear. Fine if they pass the first round for the Wilson's/Wallington/SGS/Greenshaw one but if they don't, then they've only got the Tiffin 11+ exam/Graveney in which to possibly redeem themselves (if you look at it in those terms...)

Well if nothing else, it adds a dimension of interest into the system. Certainly amongst the boys I've known I generally haven't been too surprised as to which pass for Wilsons and Wallington and which don't. I'm intrigued to see if we get an "as expected" outcome this year, or whether the 2 rounds make a difference.

I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.....think it's highly unlikely that they're going to find themselves short of eligible boys...

I don't think it's unfair in terms of the content of the exams. I think possibly it is to ensure that they're getting latent intelligence/IQ rather than 'trained/tutored-to-test' candidates.....

You may well find that they slightly alter the focus of the tests every year just to wrong foot the heavily tutored ones...

I seem to recall that in my chemistry O Level (many moons ago), I could recall the results for various tests but in the exam the question was turned on its head (find the tests rather than the results). As I was not very good at chemistry I couldn't easily do this (and got a D!) - it's a common ruse to really test understanding....

Good luck to everyone's DCs awaiting results - at least it's a fast and furious turnaround....